Pass Labs x250 stopped working shortly after buyer got it. What to do?
- Thread starter TomDac
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Bernard
Well-known member
Does this happen with every song that you play?
You are not supposed to get distortion at reasonable levels, unless it's in the recording itself.
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Could be the power cable using with the Pass Labs. If it is thin and not thick will definitely cause distortion going from moderate to high volume.
I had this problem with my integrated which has UHCMOS and came with a relatively thin kema keur power cable.
Please try upgrading to a thicker cable. Available at audio advisor. Manufacturer is Pangea. Try their AC 9SE signature power cable. Take a suitable length.
I had this problem with my integrated which has UHCMOS and came with a relatively thin kema keur power cable.
Please try upgrading to a thicker cable. Available at audio advisor. Manufacturer is Pangea. Try their AC 9SE signature power cable. Take a suitable length.
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Bernard
Well-known member
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Bernard, I'd be curious where the "bias draw dial" is on the amp when playing at loud levels.
Johnny, can you provide this information? Use the "clock" analogy.
GG
roberto
Well-known member
Hola. MLs are not bleeding hearing speakers. If you want to bleed your ears, change the brand. They are meant for long periods of listening pleasure only. You are wrong if you think that your Odysseys will do that. Go to a classical concert hall, and measure the sound pressure level (SPL) that over 100 live unplugged instruments produce there. This is the level that you want in your home for those peaks. If you want to listen rock music that loud, you are going to need a bigger watts amplifier. 500W/channel only will provide +3dB more level, but this level will be clean, and not distorted. Remember the rule: just +3dB=double the wattage of the amplifier.
With all due respect, you are clipping the amp and you might blow the woofers too. If you clip the amplifier, then you are applying DC to the crossover and coils of the woofers, and the coils only accept AC voltage (the music) and not DC voltage (when clipping the amp of its capability of over power it). Put a SPL meter application in your cell phone and measure the SPL in you seat. 100dB picks are enough and almost bleeding ears.
If you need more SPL, perhaps you have to visit the otorhinolaryngologist to know if you need a hearing aid. Bleeding hearing SPL is a harm to your ears and the ones who are sharing that high SPL music with you. If you go to a rock concert hall, always wear ears HIGH SPL protection plugs, the same that you use at a shooting range.
Clipping an amp is more easy than you think. Also, because we are used to the distortion that the cone speakers produce (almost most all commercial brands, not high-end speakers), our ears are accustomed to that distortion and ML speakers sound are clean and crystal sound. It is very different. You do not need to increase the SPL. Happy listening!
With all due respect, you are clipping the amp and you might blow the woofers too. If you clip the amplifier, then you are applying DC to the crossover and coils of the woofers, and the coils only accept AC voltage (the music) and not DC voltage (when clipping the amp of its capability of over power it). Put a SPL meter application in your cell phone and measure the SPL in you seat. 100dB picks are enough and almost bleeding ears.
If you need more SPL, perhaps you have to visit the otorhinolaryngologist to know if you need a hearing aid. Bleeding hearing SPL is a harm to your ears and the ones who are sharing that high SPL music with you. If you go to a rock concert hall, always wear ears HIGH SPL protection plugs, the same that you use at a shooting range.
Clipping an amp is more easy than you think. Also, because we are used to the distortion that the cone speakers produce (almost most all commercial brands, not high-end speakers), our ears are accustomed to that distortion and ML speakers sound are clean and crystal sound. It is very different. You do not need to increase the SPL. Happy listening!
johnny
Well-known member
Power cable from the pass very darn thick, I never see that thick of a cable before so Im gonna rule out the cable. The comfortable level of listening around 20ish db but it also depends on how the input level in the krell adjusted at. I don't know if anybody familiar with the krell but I lowed down the input to -3db and the dvd device to 0db in the krell. But it doesn't matter what level of the input is, it only changes the number of db on the volume knob. When it gets to that certain level of loudness, it still has distortion on both speakers sonicly. I called ML and they said if both speakers have distortion at the same level, then it's not the speakers, it's an amp. They checked on my panels age and they were from the original which was made in 2001. One other thing is one speaker plays slightly louder than the other.
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
The power cord included with the amp was NOT the stock power cord, but a beefier one that I bought... Can't remember the brand.. That's definitely not the issue.
Johnny, do you still have your receiver that you used prior to getting the Showcase? Can you use that instead of the Krell? Let's rule out the power amp, if possible.
Johnny, do you still have your receiver that you used prior to getting the Showcase? Can you use that instead of the Krell? Let's rule out the power amp, if possible.
johnny
Well-known member
I tried on the receiver and I think it even worse. The receive seems to have not enough juice, weak. ML sending me instruction to take the internal power supply out and send to them to test. I don't think its the amp Tom, but if it is, Ill handle it myself without questioning you. Just wanna show some appreciation to you
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
I don't recall which receiver you were using prior to getting the Krell Showcase, but if it has pre-outs, here's what I would do:
Hook up your receiver to your Bose speakers. Make sure it sounds ok.
Then using the pre-outs on the receiver, connect the X250 to it using RCA cables and use the shorting pins for the X250 balanced inputs.
Connect the Bose speakers to the X250 and power it on. Make sure it sounds ok.
If it doesn't, then check the cables you're using from the pre-outs to the X250. Make certain they are all OK.
If the sound coming from the Bose speakers is good, then the amp is not the problem. You've just proven that everything in the chain is OK.
Then, power everything off and remove the receiver from the system and connect the Krell as the pre-amp.... again, with the X250 in the signal path and powering your Bose speakers. Power it all up and see how it sounds. At that point you will know that all your cables work and the power amp is fine. If it sounds like something is wrong, make sure the cables you're using from the Krell to the X250 are OK. If those check out, then the Krell is the problem.
Keep the Odysseys out of the system until you've verified that all your other equipment is working. Again, if the X250 has problems, I will work with you to get it sorted...
We definitely know that the Odysseys need repair, so doing all of this would verify that the other equipment checks out.
Hook up your receiver to your Bose speakers. Make sure it sounds ok.
Then using the pre-outs on the receiver, connect the X250 to it using RCA cables and use the shorting pins for the X250 balanced inputs.
Connect the Bose speakers to the X250 and power it on. Make sure it sounds ok.
If it doesn't, then check the cables you're using from the pre-outs to the X250. Make certain they are all OK.
If the sound coming from the Bose speakers is good, then the amp is not the problem. You've just proven that everything in the chain is OK.
Then, power everything off and remove the receiver from the system and connect the Krell as the pre-amp.... again, with the X250 in the signal path and powering your Bose speakers. Power it all up and see how it sounds. At that point you will know that all your cables work and the power amp is fine. If it sounds like something is wrong, make sure the cables you're using from the Krell to the X250 are OK. If those check out, then the Krell is the problem.
Keep the Odysseys out of the system until you've verified that all your other equipment is working. Again, if the X250 has problems, I will work with you to get it sorted...
We definitely know that the Odysseys need repair, so doing all of this would verify that the other equipment checks out.
Johnny, TomDac just gave brilliant trouble shooting instructions. Please follow the steps and please do let us know the results.
johnny
Well-known member
After troubleshooting a useful instruction from Tom, the pass works great, the krell was much better than the receiver in pre/pro, sound much cleaner and crisp if I describe it right. the cheapest interconnect RCA (actually came free with other electronic equipment) has far less distortion and sounds better than the XLR Im using. But most importantly, my hundred year old, tiny little acoustic boses beat out my odysseys at a very high volume with just little distortion due to the boses quality driving by an x250 (I think).
So my conclusion is the odysseys must need service, either internal power supply or the panels and will be determined by ML after the test.
Thanks a lot for the troubleshooting tip Tom and thanks everyone for chiming in with assistant my problems.
So my conclusion is the odysseys must need service, either internal power supply or the panels and will be determined by ML after the test.
Thanks a lot for the troubleshooting tip Tom and thanks everyone for chiming in with assistant my problems.
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Since you think of servicing, but before doing so, I would advise to buy high quality interconnects and speaker wire to hope and determine whether the distortion reduces. My suggestion because ML’s are sensitive to any below par accessory in the audio signal chain. If the sound improves with audioquest RCA interconnect and speaker wire try to get the CLX power cable for the loudspeakers. Think of servicing as the last alternative and to undertake if needed after you have tested and fixed everything else in the audio signal chain.
Have Fun!
Have Fun!
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Buy direct from Musicdirect, sale 40% off, 1 meter pair RCA Audioquest Columbia interconnect. Price after discount $299.
Buy direct from Audioquest speaker cable, Rocket 44, 8 feet pair with spade termination, Single Bi Wire, price $ 439.
CLX power cable used to be $ 150 each you will need 2, one for each loudspeaker.
Conclusion:
IMO upgrading from 100 year old Bose speaker wires, supplied with equipment RCA’s and nearly 14 year old Odyssey power cables may make a big difference to the overall sound. If you decide to the above do inform us of the results.
Buy direct from Audioquest speaker cable, Rocket 44, 8 feet pair with spade termination, Single Bi Wire, price $ 439.
CLX power cable used to be $ 150 each you will need 2, one for each loudspeaker.
Conclusion:
IMO upgrading from 100 year old Bose speaker wires, supplied with equipment RCA’s and nearly 14 year old Odyssey power cables may make a big difference to the overall sound. If you decide to the above do inform us of the results.
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