Pass Labs x250 stopped working shortly after buyer got it. What to do?

[johnny]

Ok sorry for the late response. I had a little procedure last night and took some pain med knocked me out. Regarding the pass labs, Tom and I discussed throu the phone last night before I got knocked out from the med, but we both can't come with an agreement. He told me he will split the shipping cost with me to send it to pass labs. that wasn't the offer I want but at least he tried. He gave me an example and i m gonna say it word to word of what he said. An example is if the amp costs $700 to fix, he won't pay for it. Tom correct me if I say it wrong.

Now let put all of you in my shoes. You bought an amp, very excited and expect it to be fully function as described by the seller. After you receive it, amp works for 10 mins and 1 channel stopped working, (I tried through different amp and receiver of my own, both channels work) So now i have to pay for half of the shipping and whatever it may costs to get it fixed on top of almost $2700 was paid for the amp and other fees required by seller to get the transaction done. Guys, I paid a lot of money for the amp and expected to work not just for days, weeks but for awhile, (let alone 10 mins) and now I have to go through this hassle and pay for additional fee to get repair? I dont think that works on my best interest. I asked Tom why don't he give me $1000 or at least something for collateral to get the amp repair and he didn't agreed either.

There are always 2 sides of the story and I guess Tom didn't mention about he is not going to pay for the repair period. He claims that the amp works fine before it shipped, I claim that the amp doesn't work when I got it so who knows. I don't have any other option but to file a paypal claim and let them handle it.

For your record, I may not know all the tricks dealing with high end gears and electrostat speakers, but I am so dam sure that I know how to connect RCA outputs to inputs and speaker cables left to left and right to right. I am also dam sure not to plug in the power cord before getting the rca cables and speakers connected clear and clean, It all recommends to do so in any equipment. I also took extra careful attention to the speaker cable when they are connected. I also bought a dam tree placing behind the speakers for some reflection **** and speakers placement, all those advises were from Tom and all of you on here. Dont get me wrong, those advises are very useful and effected. I am just trying to prove my point here that Tom did warn me about connecting the speaker wires and rca connection before I even receive the amp and I was very careful about it. Couple days ago, Tom texted me and said he just sorted out his X5 and now he has to send it to pass labs to get it fix, didn't you Tom? So the question is who knows who sorted out? It either me or him, but I am very confident that it wasn't me. Like I said, there are always 2 sides of the story.

Btw I did check the fuses this morning and they are fine. Thank you for taking your time and reading my short rough draft essay guys.

 

[amey01]

The fact that the amp was working on arrival indicates no issue with you or Fedex Tom. It is one of those unfortunate (for the buyer) and lucky ( for you) instances. These things happen.

I will say however - the fact that the buyer reported woofer issues indicates to me either:

1. The amp was not connected properly
or;
2. There was a underlying issue with the speaker which caused the amp to blow.

If it was working on arrival that's all you can do. You can't warrant second hand goods indefinitely against every eventuality (looking like mis-connection or speaker issue to me).

 

[johnny]

I trusted Tom just like all of you on here, that why I bought an amp from him without knowing anything about it. I thought he is on here forever and has built a very good personal reputation on here. This is my stupidity.

 

[TomDac]

Now that you have opened up a PayPal dispute, we have to let that run it's course.... I am sorry for this trouble.. the amp was working fine when it left here and that's about all I can say.

 

[jtwrace]

Did he connect the interconnects and speaker wire with the breaker switch in the "off" position and the power cord disconnected?

If he didn't, or worse yet, if the power cord was plugged in and the breaker and the front panel power button were both on when connections were made, that would explain alot.

As a minimum, I'd call the Pass tech department and ask them what could have caused the issue.

Just a thought.

PS: Read Page 3 of the manual on how to connect the amp. One interesting line.

Do everybody a favor and try not to have shorted the output cables. It happens accidentally all the time, and the amplifier is designed to survive, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Thanks for the support, guys. I offered to split the cost of shipping the amp back to Pass Labs' service center in Auburn, CA so they could diagnose the cause of the failure, but Johnny just wants his money back. Makes no sense... If he didn't do the damage, I'll pay for the repair or buy it back... seems pretty simple... His texting me, "You sent me a broken one and you know it" has really upset me... I don't operate that way.

I trusted Tom just like all of you on here, that why I bought an amp from him without knowing anything about it. I thought he is on here forever and has built a very good personal reputation on here. This is my stupidity.

If I were you I'd get the amp to Pass and go from there. There is no need to wear out your welcome on this invaluable forum that Tom pays for out of his own pocket for us to post on. Think about that for a second. Tom spends money for random people to post about a product that share common interests.

 

[jtwrace]

Now that you have opened up a PayPal dispute, we have to let that run it's course.... I am sorry for this trouble.. the amp was working fine when it left here and that's about all I can say.

Oh, nice. ugh.

 

[johnny]

Now that you have opened up a PayPal dispute, we have to let that run it's course.... I am sorry for this trouble.. the amp was working fine when it left here and that's about all I can say.

I opened the PayPal dispute because you didn't wanna do anything to help to pay for the repair beside half of the shipping. The amp worked fine before you shipped according to you, but there is no prove or whatsoever. I was willing to work out with you about the possible repair but you didn't want to. Let it play out its course and see what happen. If I lose, it's a lesson to learn

 

[johnny]

If I were you I'd get the amp to Pass and go from there. There is no need to wear out your welcome on this invaluable forum that Tom pays for out of his own pocket for us to post on. Think about that for a second. Tom spends money for random people to post about a product that share common interests.

All I'm thinking about is I'm paying over $2500 for a non-working amp. That's a lot of money to think about my friend. But thanks for your advise.

 

[jtwrace]

All I'm thinking about is I'm paying over $2500 for a non-working amp. That's a lot of money to think about my friend. But thanks for your advise.

Yes, I understand that. $2,500 is a lot of money..no doubt. However, there are always certain ways to handle things. The fact that it's not some joe blow from audiogon should have helped the situation. Either way, that's all in the past now...I'll be curious to see how it ends for both of you. In the meantime I'd call Pass on Monday and make sure there isn't something that you can check. Oh, if you put your nose to the top of the amp where the vents are does it smell burnt? If so, you might as well pack it up and get ready to ship to someone in California.

 

[Gordon Gray]

The amp worked fine before you shipped according to you, but there is no prove or whatsoever.

Johnny,

May I suggest that it is counter productive to your best interests to question someone's integrity and honesty when you are trying to resolve an issue. You are questioning whether or not Tom was and is acting "in good faith".

I think you are missing this very important and basic concept.

Gordon

 

[johnny]

Johnny,

May I suggest that it is counter productive to your best interests to question someone's integrity and honesty when you are trying to resolve an issue. You are questioning whether or not Tom was and is acting "in good faith".

I think you are missing this very important and basic concept.

Gordon

I maybe missing a basic concept to your concern. Since I have been asking a lot of advise on here lately, here is one more advise I wanna ask you all if yall genttlemen don't mind. The conversation between Tom and I was over last night, there was nothing left for me to negotiate. The man neither wants to refund nor repair beside pay half of shipping cost and that was his final answer. So what are my choices here? Just swallow it and get it ship and repair and pay from my own pocket? Well, I maintain my integrity as he maintains his. My only and final option was to let PayPal deals with it since they received the fee.

 

[amey01]

All I'm thinking about is I'm paying over $2500 for a non-working amp. That's a lot of money to think about my friend. But thanks for your advise.

You mean $2500 for a working amp that became "non-working" for reasons unknown to you.

Electronics break my friend - unfortunate that it broke so soon, but electronics can break down at any time.

It was working when you took delivery of it. How can the seller be responsible for anything else?

 

[Gordon Gray]

Adam,

Here's the irony. I encouraged Tom to buy this amp. I also encouraged Johnny to buy this amp.

But given the fact that I was raised Catholic, I welcome every opportunity to feel bad and guilty.

Gordon

 

[R.I.P]

Ok sorry for the late response. I had a little procedure last night and took some pain med knocked me out. Regarding the pass labs, Tom and I discussed throu the phone last night before I got knocked out from the med, but we both can't come with an agreement. He told me he will split the shipping cost with me to send it to pass labs. that wasn't the offer I want but at least he tried. He gave me an example and i m gonna say it word to word of what he said. An example is if the amp costs $700 to fix, he won't pay for it. Tom correct me if I say it wrong.

Now let put all of you in my shoes. You bought an amp, very excited and expect it to be fully function as described by the seller. After you receive it, amp works for 10 mins and 1 channel stopped working, (I tried through different amp and receiver of my own, both channels work) So now i have to pay for half of the shipping and whatever it may costs to get it fixed on top of almost $2700 was paid for the amp and other fees required by seller to get the transaction done. Guys, I paid a lot of money for the amp and expected to work not just for days, weeks but for awhile, (let alone 10 mins) and now I have to go through this hassle and pay for additional fee to get repair? I dont think that works on my best interest. I asked Tom why don't he give me $1000 or at least something for collateral to get the amp repair and he didn't agreed either.

There are always 2 sides of the story and I guess Tom didn't mention about he is not going to pay for the repair period. He claims that the amp works fine before it shipped, I claim that the amp doesn't work when I got it so who knows. I don't have any other option but to file a paypal claim and let them handle it.

For your record, I may not know all the tricks dealing with high end gears and electrostat speakers, but I am so dam sure that I know how to connect RCA outputs to inputs and speaker cables left to left and right to right. I am also dam sure not to plug in the power cord before getting the rca cables and speakers connected clear and clean, It all recommends to do so in any equipment. I also took extra careful attention to the speaker cable when they are connected. I also bought a dam tree placing behind the speakers for some reflection **** and speakers placement, all those advises were from Tom and all of you on here. Dont get me wrong, those advises are very useful and effected. I am just trying to prove my point here that Tom did warn me about connecting the speaker wires and rca connection before I even receive the amp and I was very careful about it. Couple days ago, Tom texted me and said he just sorted out his X5 and now he has to send it to pass labs to get it fix, didn't you Tom? So the question is who knows who sorted out? It either me or him, but I am very confident that it wasn't me. Like I said, there are always 2 sides of the story.

Btw I did check the fuses this morning and they are fine. Thank you for taking your time and reading my short rough draft essay guys.

I may be mistaken but the jumpers were attached for XLR connection. And Johnny used RCA connection instead of XLR. I am not sure but would not this cause damage to the amp and woofer blowout.

 

[amey01]

The amp worked fine before you shipped according to you, but there is no prove or whatsoever.

** There is "prove" of it because it was working fine when you received it. Your words.

Conversely;

** The amp was connected properly according to you, but there is no prove or whatsoever.

** Your speakers aren't faulty according to you, but there is no prove or whatsoever.

What there is "prove" of (your own words) is that the amp was working fine when you received it - I think this is a pretty easy case to close. I feel your disappointment however.

Tom has already gone beyond the call of duty to offer to pay half the shipping to Pass. It doesn't surprise me. Just say "Thank you".

 

[Gordon Gray]

I may be mistaken but the jumpers were attached for XLR connection. And Johnny used RCA connection instead of XLR. I am not sure but would not this cause damage to the amp and woofer blowout.

Assuming this is the case, the answer is no.

 

[Gordon Gray]

I suggest a time out and numerous deep breaths.

 

[johnny]

** There is "prove" of it because it was working fine when you received it. Your words.

Conversely;

** The amp was connected properly according to you, but there is no prove or whatsoever.

** Your speakers aren't faulty according to you, but there is no prove or whatsoever.

What there is "prove" of (your own words) is that the amp was working fine when you received it - I think this is a pretty easy case to close. I feel your disappointment however.

Tom has already gone beyond the call of duty to offer to pay half the shipping to Pass. It doesn't surprise me. Just say "Thank you".

As I stated above, I maintain my integrity and he maintains his. Since the money already paid, nothing I can do but let PayPal solves it. I suppose you didn't bother reading the thread and have no clue about the situation and quickly jump into a conclusion. If I lose, it's a lesson to learn. Speaking of easy case to close? well, put in an application with PayPal and close it my friend because your opinion mean nothing.

 

[Rich]

Seems to me that if you indeed sent a text saying the amp was fine upon receipt, then you don't really have much of a leg to stand on. You can't really send a confirmation that everything is ok and then later try to retract it and say you received a faulty amp. If it worked well enough for you to send a text saying it was fine, then obviously you did something over the next several minutes to create the problem. It sounds like you screwed something up, and now want Tom to pay to fix it. If you hadn't sent a text saying everything was fine, I could understand. But the moment you sent that text, I believe you relieved Tom of any responsibility. Simply put, you don't tell the seller that everything is fine and you are satisfied until you are absolutely certain that is true. Otherwise, it just looks like you are trying to pull a fast one.

 

[Bernard]

Johnny, if I recall correctly you posted pictures of the back of your speakers, showing that you use bare wire for connection to your speakers (a practice I dislike as strands can break off; I prefer spade lugs). Is it possible that things worked fine for 10 minutes, after which something moved (the speakers were bumped, etc) and the strands ended up touching, and shorting the amp?

This is not as far-fetched as it seems. I once debugged a mains system that kept blowing a breaker after a storm. It turned out that the electrician did a poor job, leaving strands in the receptacle almost touching, and during the storm the house shook and the strands touched.