jmschnur
Well-known member
Now we want to know how they sound in your system.
J
J
New Montis speakers DOA. Very disappointing
- Thread starter Bradh1
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
Bradh1
Well-known member
Thanks Peter.
I would say it wasn't snapped in place and slipped off during shipping. Everything else from the packaging, ect was fine. I really liked how easy it was getting them out of the boxes. I glad to hear ML has changed anything in there QC.
Brad
roberto
Well-known member
Hola. Just thinking loud, it would be nice to have a sheet with the name of the guy who did the QC check signed by him... and a brief description of what he did check. This is for the reserve series. Also if a way to make sure that everything is O.K. when the product left the factory. Happy listening!!!
Bradh1
Well-known member
Me too
. As of now i can tell the stage and image is better. The placement of instruments, back up vocals ect are better. The highs are better with more detail. I won't comment on the lower end until they break in. As you said a few post back they are going to need some time. Its just that phase or un stable sound in lower end that just doesn't sound quiet right as of now. I am hoping all that changes after break in. Like you I have left the bass at 0. I put them in the same place as the SL 3, and matched the levels with rest of they system for break in period. Sometime next week after a 75-100 hrs I will work on placement, toe ect. I had my son take a listen and he picked out the same things. Brad
Bradh1
Well-known member
jmschnur
Well-known member
Me too
Brad
I found that when I used spikes, the speakers coupled very strongly to my floor . The room is a 2nd floor room which is carpeted. I used the hockey puck tweak to reduce the coupling to the floor. This helped a lot. After break in you will find the bass quite strong and able to raise modes in your room you might not have noticed before.
I have mine 4' 10" from front wall and about 30" from side walls in a 16x14 room. I have some treatment but perhaps not enough . I use an integra 80.2 with xt 32 and the pro kit. I have listened with audyssey on and off. The audyssey eq helps tame my room modes in the low end a bit. I xover at 40 hz to jl 112s. Couch is 30" from rear wall.
Compared to my Vantages, classical guitar, jazz bass, and well recorded piano are much better. As you said the staging is now very very good .
J
Last edited:
JayGee
Well-known member
You can help others who purchase from M-L in the future by calling M-L and sharing your disappointment with the lapse in QC. Without going into details I can assure you that QC is becoming a real issue.
Last edited:
Bradh1
Well-known member
This may not be over just yet. Above I was talking about hearing a phase like problem in the lower end. Well it's still there after 40hr of break in. I decided to check the phase by switching the leads to the speaker that had the problem. Well that fix the lower end, but put the panels out of phase. After this test I believe the woofer is wire backwards on that speaker.
I think at this point Iam going to reverse the leads on that woofer.
It looks like the easiest way would be to remove the amp, and try it from the back. I would try it from the front by removing the grill, but it looks the panel would need to be removed in order for that to work.
Has anyone done this before?
Thanks
Brad
jmschnur
Well-known member
I think you should contact ml on Monday . The ethos service manual may help if you can find one although the amps are different. Not sure there is a montis service manual out.
J
Last edited:
jmschnur
Well-known member
In some ml systems the woofer is set out of phase with the panel. Not sure this is the case with the Monits but the DSP chip could be doing some strange things. I assume your other speaker does not have the issues you have experienced . I checked out some ethos reviews which had detailed comments about that speakers bass and DSP chip. Indeed that DSP does some things with phase . Before going into the speaker you might want to play with distance from your front wall . And then the Martin Logan folks should help provide insight.
What music sounds bad when you listen.
J
What music sounds bad when you listen.
J
Last edited:
shakham
Well-known member
At this point I would let ML deal with it. Just IMHO.
I mean, I'm happy to try the simple things, but it is a $10k product which shouldn't involve so much customer debugging.
Who did u buy it from, can't they send somebody?
I agree here now, I would be inclined to get the dealer involved with this, a simple plug is ok to re position, but phase switching of the bass driver, although easy, should be covered if there is an issue by ml. 10k speakers should be plug & play, bar positioning..
User211
Well-known member
I think ML should send another pair out, and then, when and only when you are satisfied they actually work properly, you send the duff pair back. Whether that'll actually happen is another question.
Bad luck, though. Really, I'd hope you'd get a replacement pair plus a sweetener for the hassle factor.
Bad luck, though. Really, I'd hope you'd get a replacement pair plus a sweetener for the hassle factor.
Contact your dealer and contact ML customer service. You have a warranty for a reason.
Bradh1
Well-known member
They sound bad on all music, at least in the freq. range where they are out of phase.
When you listen to a test disc with in and out of phase test tone (on correct speakers) you get a nice center focus in phase. When the signal is out of phase you get sound everywhere hard to pinpoint. Once you hear this it easy to pickup.
What I hear is good image, center focus on vocals, ect. on the high freq.(the panel range). When the freq. gets in the woofer ranger which is crossed at 340 hz on the Montis, everything sounds out of phase in that range. When I switched the leads on one speaker, every freq. in the panel range sounds out phase. But the lower freq. sound like they should. That’s why I think the woofer is hooked up wrong.
I know some manufactures do wire there sub drivers out of phase. I just think in this case one is wired correct, and the other is not, meaning if they are suppose to be wired out of phase only one is. My thinking is if I correct the one woofer everything should sound fine, based on the test I have done.
I called ML yesterday but they were closed for Good Friday. I have been talking with my dealer and, they sent emails out to ML yesterday, and will call Monday. I am very happy with my dealer and I know they will take care of this. I just want to know if that’s the problem. I might change the leads tonight after work, and see if that fixes it. Now if the panel has to come off in order to get that done then I might wait. If it can be done by removing the amp plate, it should be pretty easy.
Thanks
Brad
invenio
Well-known member
Bradh1-
Sorry to hear about all your troubles. My suggestion would be to stop working on the speaker, put it back together and wait for ML or the dealer to replace this. It just seems like there are too many problems. Like a previous post said, a $10k speaker should be plug and play. I know it's tough to wait but ultimately your just spending your time and would probably be better off on just getting a replacement unit regardless. Hope everything works out well.
Sorry to hear about all your troubles. My suggestion would be to stop working on the speaker, put it back together and wait for ML or the dealer to replace this. It just seems like there are too many problems. Like a previous post said, a $10k speaker should be plug and play. I know it's tough to wait but ultimately your just spending your time and would probably be better off on just getting a replacement unit regardless. Hope everything works out well.
jmschnur
Well-known member
Could be ml will send you new one but want to see the speaker in its out of phase state. Question of course is are the woofer supposed to be in phase. The DSP chip also affects things.
I go with the others suggestion wait until Monday .
J
I go with the others suggestion wait until Monday .
J
Last edited:
Bradh1
Well-known member
Ok I figured ML would ask me some question when I talk with them. So I opened the speaker that had the connector off, and checked all the leads. On the woofer there is a + with a red dot and, a red wire (hooked up correctly). All other leads on this speaker are correct +/-. This lead to check the other speaker and guess what the woofer was wired out of phase. So curiosity kill the cat, and I changed it. Now everything sound as it should. Granted I don't have them dialed in toe ect. But the phase problem is gone.
I would think if the woofers are suppose to be out of phase they wouldn't be marked with a wih a red dot. I will ask ML in the morning if the woofers are suppose to be out of phase, and if they are them I can change them.
The bad part about this is who every listened to them should have picked up the phase problem. I could see someone getting these and not be willing to take them apart and check for the problem. This would cost ML some $$$ for shipping that could be avoided. I get the part about the connector coming loose if it wasn't snapped in, but having one driver out of phase.
I will report back after I or my dealer talk with ML. Now back to the breaking in process.
Brad
I would think if the woofers are suppose to be out of phase they wouldn't be marked with a wih a red dot. I will ask ML in the morning if the woofers are suppose to be out of phase, and if they are them I can change them.
The bad part about this is who every listened to them should have picked up the phase problem. I could see someone getting these and not be willing to take them apart and check for the problem. This would cost ML some $$$ for shipping that could be avoided. I get the part about the connector coming loose if it wasn't snapped in, but having one driver out of phase.
I will report back after I or my dealer talk with ML. Now back to the breaking in process.
Brad
Last edited:
jmschnur
Well-known member
So how is the other speaker hooked up?
J
J
Bradh1
Well-known member
Both speakers had all of there +\- correct except for one woofer which was wired red to black & black to red, on the back of the woofer. Like you said before they might be wired out phase. If so them both should have be. Ifthey are supposed to be, I can change them.
Do you feel like checking yours
and reporting back. Brad
