Martin Logan Spires - How to Tell if B-Stock

[akopperl]

I'll try to make a long story short. I went to demo the new Ethos speakers and was impressed. I was set to buy, but the dealer represented that he could get brand new Spires for the same price. He called me the next day and his rep located a pair of Spires, but the color was Light Cherry, which does not work for me. I was about to buy the Ethos and he told me to hang tight and lo and behold they located a pair in Dark Cherry. I ordered them later that day.

Today the speakers arrived. My salesperson said not to be alarmed when the delivery guy arrives as he always opens and inspects speakers of that value before delivery. He represented that they were pristine and in good working order. After the delivery guy left, I looked at the boxes and there was a B-Stock sticker on each box (the serial number sticker was taped partly over the B-stock sticker). I called the dealer and he insisted that they are not B-Stock - as noted by the Serial Number tag with an "A" after the number. The serial number specifies an April 2010 production date. He said it was possible that they did not have any other boxes and re-used the box from a B-stock pair.

What do you think I should do? Accept his answer, insist on an additional discount or return them? Unfortunately, I won't get to unpack the speakers until tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[GaryG]

I would contact ML customer service ASAP and tell them your story. Something certainly does not smell right.

 

[akopperl]

I called Martin Logan this morning and they stated that I needed to go through the dealer first. If I don't get satisfaction from the dealer they said to call back and the ML account manager would get involved.

I called the dealer and they are supposed to call back later today with more information (explaining how It appears that I got b-stock, etc.). I told them I needed a significant discount or they can have the Spire speakers back.

 

[jmschnur]

What is B stock? And what is the difference between a stock and b stock for Martin Logan?

 

[Gordon Gray]

For most items, it's typically an aesthetic flaw issue and has nothing to do with the actual performance of the product. Would assume this holds true for ML as well.

GG

 

[jmschnur]

Thanks so a b spire might be of interest to me if the warranty was fully in effect.

 

[RichTeer]

One way to check: compare the serial numbers on the actual speakers to those on the boxes. If they match, I'd say the odds of them being B stock rises significantly!

The Ethos is about 33% cheaper than the Spire, so getting the latter for the price of the former falls into the "if it's too good to be true, it ain't" camp. IOW, it's probably unrealistic to expect a brand new pair of Spires to be the same price as the Ethos, unless the former we B stock or something. I agree, though, that the dealer should have made this clear up front.

 

[mopar04]

I'm not sure how ML's B-stock process works but in my experience sometimes B-stock speakers are a hell of a deal. A lot of the times they're only B-stock due to a tiny scratch somewhere on the cabinet or the wood grain doesn't match closely enough to be considered a matching pair by the CQ department. It could also be that a component of the speaker was damaged during assembly or shipping and was sent back and has been completely replaced, but the speakers can't legally be sold as "new" anymore because of it. I got a pair of Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand towers for about 80% off a few years ago because the sound tech at their CQ check in Berkley tipped them over on a accident into the wall behind them and lightly cracked the veneer, but they still passed the SQ check with A+ marks and provided me with the test results for peace of mind. So, don't immediately rule them out if they're B-stock because they may be 95% perfect for a killer price. It is very shady for your dealer to represent them as A-stock products if they are in fact B-stock, though. Most companies only sell B-stock factory-direct and don't allow independent dealers to sell them for that very reason.

 

[asindc]

Spires are being sold for close-out prices now, so it might not be a shady deal. If anything, getting a thumbs-up and a full warranty from ML should ease the anxiety about the purchase. After demoing, of course. I bought my Vantages as essentially b-stock. They were a return for an upgrade to Summits by the original purchaser after having them only a week. Full warranty and dealer support, so I'm happy.

 

[amey01]

I'd be calling ML straight away. Something's wrong. As others have said, check whether the speakers' serial number is the same as on the box. If they are not then you've got an issue right there. If they are the same, then ask ML for an explanation of B-Stock. Is it their sticker, or the dealer's sticker? How did it get into the hands of the dealer? But something is wrong - dealer rectify or take back.

 

[akopperl]

I opened the speakers today. Very easy to tell if they are B-stock as ML places a non-removable sticker on the back of the speaker stating it is B-stock.

I listened to the Spires today and love them. For A-stock, I though I got a decent deal (30% off) and got the color I wanted. However, I don't think it is such a great deal for B-stock. The dealer is unwilling to give me a bigger discouint on the Spires. I tried to explain that the quoted price was for A-stock and why should I pay the same for B-stock. They stated that they understood, but cannot lower the price further. They gave me three options - 1) Keep the Spires, 2) Exchange them for the Montis speakers and pay the difference (they would significantly discount the Montis) and 3) Exchange them for the Ethos at a significant discount and they would credit me for the difference.

I'm leaning towards the Montis option - but am unsure if they are better than the Spires and worth the additional money. I am having a tough time getting over their reluctance to give me more off on the Spires. Also, I assume I would take a hit on their resale value (even though they looked flawless to me). If I return the Spires, they are shipping them back to ML. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mopar04]

I'd go for the Montis at a discount; newer speakers, newer tech, and therefore better resale value if you get bitten by the upgrade bug when they release their next beauty. The Spires are being sold everywhere at a discount so their street value is going to be lower in the next few years since a lot of people getting them for 30-40% off at the moment to clear inventories.

I bought the Theos and they released the Montis a week after the Theos got to my door, I wasn't sure I'd see a big enough difference with the Ethos since I have a Descent i on order for bass and the panel on the Theos and Ethos are the same square inch-wise, but I'd have jumped on that new Montis in a heartbeat. I love my Theos but the Montis is absolutely beautiful.

 

[tsv_1]

I opened the speakers today. Very easy to tell if they are B-stock as ML places a non-removable sticker on the back of the speaker stating it is B-stock.

I listened to the Spires today and love them. For A-stock, I though I got a decent deal (30% off) and got the color I wanted. However, I don't think it is such a great deal for B-stock. The dealer is unwilling to give me a bigger discouint on the Spires. I tried to explain that the quoted price was for A-stock and why should I pay the same for B-stock. They stated that they understood, but cannot lower the price further. They gave me three options - 1) Keep the Spires, 2) Exchange them for the Montis speakers and pay the difference (they would significantly discount the Montis) and 3) Exchange them for the Ethos at a significant discount and they would credit me for the difference.

I'm leaning towards the Montis option - but am unsure if they are better than the Spires and worth the additional money. I am having a tough time getting over their reluctance to give me more off on the Spires. Also, I assume I would take a hit on their resale value (even though they looked flawless to me). If I return the Spires, they are shipping them back to ML. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

wait... what about option 4 "full refund" and you take your busniess to a dealer who isn't effing with you?

 

[amey01]

wait... what about option 4 "full refund" and you take your busniess to a dealer who isn't effing with you?

+1 Todd. I would take this option too. They have lied to you and tried to dupe you. Get out of it even, then take your business elsewhere. For all you know they could be demonstrators too, as unethical business standards generally extend to other areas of the business.

If you have any problem with obtaining this option, contact ML (as I and a few others have said already) and explicitly tell them about the dealer and how they are conducting business with their products.

 

[akopperl]

I appreciate all of the responses. I hear what some people are saying regarding a refund. This may pose a few problems for me - namely they are the only local dealer for the Reserve ESL. Also, I got a great financing deal on the purchase. In the end, if I can get a great deal on the Montis - it wouldn't be all bad. I did get great prices on A-stock Motif and a pair of LX16 speakers.

I don't believe that the dealer knew it was B-stock upon ordering. However, it was disconcerting that they appeared to try to downplay the B-stock issue. The biggest surprise is their unwillingness to lower the price of the Spire. I thought it may be due to a higher profit margin for the Montis, but if I go for the Ethos - I would imagine the profit dollars will decrease based on the price they are offering. If they gave me another $1000 off the price, I would keep the Spires. For B-stock on a discontinued model - you would figure it would be worth it to ML. I have seen threads where people are getting closeout Spires for under $5k - which is all I was asking for.

 

[amey01]

I don't believe that the dealer knew it was B-stock upon ordering.

Really? If that was the case then the dealer should be more p1ssed off than you are - they ordered and paid for a A-stock speaker and got a B-stock speaker too. And now they have a p1ssed off customer to boot.

I think they knew full well.

You've told them what will make you happy. If they can't meet that requirement then it should be a full refund and look elsewhere. Unless you are happy with that Montis deal (bearing in mind finding another Spire might be difficult).

Maybe I lack a little understanding of your laws though?

 

[akopperl]

I don't really know for sure what the dealer knew. I'm just going based on their insistence that they were unaware and their unhappiness. They also offered to give me the number of their local rep. Although, I am not sure what that will accomplish as regardless of what each party knew, I am sure they will be on the same page now.

It is hard for me to keep speakers manufactured 19 months ago that is clearly B-stock unless I get close to 50% off. The dealer is saying ML is more than happy to take them back and they can sell them quickly since they are so scarce. Again, I still don't understand the reluctance to lower the price - someone is taking a loss on multiple shipments. Also, I am not privy to what ML charges the dealer. I may have a lawsuit, but it seems to be more of a hassle unless I don't get any satisfactory offer back and overall the Montis may be a better deal for me - not at the MSRP or 10% off, but at a deep discount.

After I purchased the Spires, the dealer ran a big sale on the Montis and I did have second thoughts as based on resale and the hope they sound even a little better, it may have been the better option. However, the Spires were on their way and I was pretty excited as the dealer spent a couple of days trying to locate the Spires.

 

[tsv_1]

I worked for a hifi shop several years ago... the typical recommended mark-up was 100%. If a pair of speakers cost the dealer $1000, they would typically retail for $2000. So, if you get them for 50% off, you're likely getting them for something close to dealer cost. However, this was a decade ago, so margins may no longer typically be that high. And also, I'm only talking about A-Stock merchandise.

If it were me, and I paid for new and got B-stock, I would be sending them back asap. As others have said, Spire resale is trending downward... and when you go to sell them (assuming one day you will) - you'll have to decide if you want to divulge at that time that they were B-stock when you purchased them... further degrading resale value.

If you can get a satisfactory discount on Montis, that seems like a reasonable option. If not... I would send the speakers back, ask for a full cash refund (not store credit) and be very wary of that dealer moving forward.

BTW... dealers pull this crap from time to time. Statistically, some number of customers won't complain (or even notice) when a product they thought they were buying new was something other than advertised.

Good luck

 

[akopperl]

The dealer came through with a great deal on the Montis - even better than I expected so I am going to return the Spires and take the Montis. In the end, I am happy with the result.

 

[tsv_1]

The dealer came through with a great deal on the Montis - even better than I expected so I am going to return the Spires and take the Montis. In the end, I am happy with the result.

That's great! Keep us posted on delivery and initial impressions once installed in your system.

Cheers!