Martin Logan Shower Cleaning PDF

[Tosh]

Glad to offer some help! (even though I have never washed an ESL myself!)
A risk during any wetting of the ESL sandwich is that the adhesives (which are already old by this point) on the foam spacers will weaken still a bit further, so take care to keep the sandwich held or clamped together so there is no relative strain or slippage between front and rear stators during handling. But once you have decided to wash it, there is really no downside in spending longer time washing them, perhaps even so far as a proper soak to loosen stubborn crust. You might look closely at the rinse water for an indication of how much dirt is being loosened.

 

[R.I.P]

Tosh your advice very valuable for me since it came from an authoritative source and solved my questions.

Just 2 hours ago I completed a listening session with a friend, Mr. Samer, who is employed by the Martin Logan dealer. Needless to say I was amazed once gain and I think he was shocked by the great sound from the CLS with very modest cabling, source and amplification. I now look forward to and savor every minute I spend with my old but gold CLS.

Who is responsible for my good fortune I would say Tosh, Roberto and other members who put forward the idea of shower cleaning and offered practical advice in this regard.

Now that I have experience washing and seen removal and re-instatement of CLS panels, I would not hesitate to recommend this process, with the precautions, to owners of 15 year and greater age panels. My CLS panel age will be 27 years in December, 2015.

A mistake I made was to squeeze thrice the panels at a single place to see whether they were dry from the inside. They were dry as no water came out. However the place I squeezed the panel foam later divided or separated. I then used glue to fix this minor problem. Using glue helped but the damage was only 70% reversed.

Washing the panels should be the first step to take before the second step of replacing panels. Because it really works if the panel conductive coating is still intact and really does roll back the years on the panel.

 

[PaulCarlucci]

I've got some scripts that I suspect could use this treatment. I'm wary of disassembling them and have considered this shortcut....

Take script, flip upside down. Carefully use a spray bottle filled with water from my RO filter and let it drain out the top. No disassembly. Assuming I'm careful enough is there any reason this wouldn't be plausible? The top edge is open anyway so the water should drain down just fine.

 

[R.I.P]

I've got some scripts that I suspect could use this treatment. I'm wary of disassembling them and have considered this shortcut....

Take script, flip upside down. Carefully use a spray bottle filled with water from my RO filter and let it drain out the top. No disassembly. Assuming I'm careful enough is there any reason this wouldn't be plausible? The top edge is open anyway so the water should drain down just fine.

May not work because you also have to dry the loudspeaker over a period of 5 days. Risk is there that some water may enter the woofer when handling the loudspeaker. Get help from ML dealer like I did to take out panel and re-install panel after rinsing the electrostatic panel.

Your procedure may result in water damage to loudspeaker. Just my subjective opinion.

Have fun listening to music!:music:

 

[02GF74]

well I took the plunge today. For Aerius i the side panels are released by tapping downwards from the top (contrary to what is mentioned in the pdf).

I mixed a bit of hand soap with water and sprayed both sides using one of those hand held garden sprays. Next was a wash down with warm water in the shower followed by washing off with deionised water.

They are drying now but the foam holding the two panels together has separated . Not sure how I will resolve that but they are clamped together in the hope that it will stick together when dry.

 

[R.I.P]

well I took the plunge today. For Aerius i the side panels are released by tapping downwards from the top (contrary to what is mentioned in the pdf).

I mixed a bit of hand soap with water and sprayed both sides using one of those hand held garden sprays. Next was a wash down with warm water in the shower followed by washing off with deionised water.

They are drying now but the foam holding the two panels together has separated . Not sure how I will resolve that but they are clamped together in the hope that it will stick together when dry.

Sorry to give you bad news, after the event, if i am not mistaken never use soap and never use warm water to rinse panels to increase operational life.

 

[thatoneguy]

Thank you!
Thank You!
THANK YOU!!!

I was about to dump my 20 year old Aerius i 's, when I read this. I figured it was worth a shot. The ESL's were sounding really muddy, bassy and dark and honestly your ears get used to it over time. It was a buddy who mentioned that something in the way high range of the mix was missing. I figured it was for sure a cross over problem because it was like the high frequencies weren't there, or very little at least.

I was a little less precise in cleaning them but the first shot of water ran off dark yellow, I used to smoke a lot around them. They also have been through a few construction projects in my house. Most people would shoot me but I'd be sanding drywall while jamming to my Logan's in the same room, I just hate listening to cheap speakers.

For anyone else reading this I rinsed them in the shower with cold water on the highest pressure setting my hand held shower head had. Then I toweled them off a bit. Then I set my air compressor to 80 Psi and kept spraying up and down the panels for about 5 minutes. The rubber nozzle on the air gun was touching the grills the whole time. Then I laid them down with a high powered fan right on them for 5 - 10 minutes. I'd say within 30 minutes of washing them they were playing.

Once again Thank you! I've been messing with my source, my pre and my power amp and nothing really helped. I finally just figured these weren't good speakers for the room they were in because they used to sound way better years ago in a different room. The high end sparkle, the mid range detail, it's all back! If I met you in a bar I wouldn't buy you a beer I'd pick up your whole tab! You saved me an easy $1000 and got me excited to listen to music again.

This brings up a good point that maybe ESL's are a bad choice for smokers. I vape around them now, I wonder if this will have any effect on them in the long run.

 

[roberto]

Hola. Its good to know that it did work for you, but I think too much water pressure could do a harm to the very delicate diaphragm. To dry the panel, its not necessary too much air pressure. With 35 IPS you are safe. I had a customer who did use a pressure circa the 75 IPS, and he did a lot of holes at the diaphragm, making this, to buy new stat panels. Usually, putting the stat panels into the garage, and a towel in the floor where they are going to be stand, will do...two to three days and the panel will be totally dry.

Just wash the front of the stat panels, because its here where the bias cable is making the contact and its where the conductive coating is located. You can do a quick wash to the back part, but just for removing the dust. The front is where you have to work with time. Ten minutes per stat its enough time to clean the diaphragm.

Happy listening to all!

 

[HiFiFuchs]

Hi everybody,

It´s a bit unfortune that there is two of this very helpful threads containing partly the same threads. A few minutes ago I wrote a reply asking for further help, update and advise, after having written the thread I recognised thet this thread contains more Information as the other.
Thank you all.

Just allow me one more question: Would it make sense to clamp the two straight sides with wooden lists and some C-clamps to prevent the water to get too much into the double sided tape Holding the Panels togehter and ensuring the diaphragm Tension?
Has anyone tried this?

 

[roberto]

Hola...it looks a clever idea. What its more important, is to wash very well the bottom of the stat panel, where the cables are located. Specially the red color, because this is the bias voltage carry. This cable is only making contact to the conductive coat of the diaphragm and its making the contact with a scotch tape. No glue or any adhesive. Just the tape and bare red wire in contact to the diaphragm.

 

[HiFiFuchs]

Hi Roberto,

I have read a lot of nice and positive comments about you here on the Forum and I thank you for your fast reply.
I am thinking about washing my Panels this coming Weekend. I will post my experience next week.

Wish you all the best and happy listening.
Rino

 

[HiFiFuchs]

Washed my panels!

Hi Roberto,

I am thinking about washing my Panels this coming Weekend. I will post my experience next week.

Wish you all the best and happy listening.
Rino

Hi again,

Yesterday I washed my Aerius panels. Before washing them I clamped both vertical sides wich some wooden lists and 4 C-clamps on each side to prevent too much water to enter the glued area and slacken the diaphragm tension.
I didn´t notice any dirty water coming out but I can see that the diaphragms are clearer now as before washing them. After washing them app. 10 min. on the front side, taking care to wash the area wehe the red cable enters the panel, I did the same on the back side. After having washed them I first removed as much water as possible with a large towel. After that I dried them für app. 15-20 min. with a hair drier on low heat until I could see no more water anywhere. The last step before butting them back into the speaker frame I put them in front of a heater fan having app. 1 meter distance between the fan and the panels and left them there for app. 1 hour.

I assembled everything last night but didn´t power them before this morning.

There is definitely a audible improvement, its not a world of difference but they sound more sparkling and the image has improved slightly. I must say that I am impressed with the sound of the panels although they are 23 years old. As I never heard a new ML for comparison, I really wonder if or how much better they would sound.

I want to thank every one of you who was kind enough to post your experience and comments about the washing process. It encouraged me to try my luck and I must say it was well worth it!

Thank you all.:bowdown:

 

[Empty Vessel]

Hi all, first post. I've just dismantled and washed my Vantage panels. Total success.

Background: I've probably been a bit lazy about vacuuming, so in the last couple of weeks some combination of dust and dog hair and high humidity made both of them go very dull. I guessed it was unlikely to be a random electrical or mechanical problem as both were afflicted, so tried vacuuming, no luck. Dismantled based on this thread:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?6755
and washed as per above.

Just reassembled and the improvement is complete, as good as they should be.

Glad I discovered this forum, what a mine of useful info. Cheers all, I'll try to give back.

 

[Jazzman53]

I have to admit when I first saw this thread I cringed at the thought of spaying water into an ESL panel. No doubt it would clean the dust out and to that extent improve the sound in the short term at least-- just wondering if the copper foil charging strip would corrode over time if any water got trapped around it.

Still, there are so many positive reports here I gotta assume it's OK to give the panels a shower!

My stator panels are wood and wire though so I'll limit the showers to me and the GF.

 

[Hammerhead]

Does anyone have an opinion on using a mild detergent like diluted Dawn or Simple Green to break up any oil or grease that no doubt many of us have from either environmental or household (cooking) factors?


Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

 

[JonFo]

Does anyone have an opinion on using a mild detergent like diluted Dawn or Simple Green to break up any oil or grease that no doubt many of us have from either environmental or household (cooking) factors?

Per post #66 above, it is NOT recommended to use soap of any kind, as it can affect the foam and glue holding the stators together. So just plain water.

Also, be very careful of the temperatures the panel is exposed to. If the water is too hot, or the forced air during drying too hot, the diaphragm can shrink in uneven ways, leading to wrinkles, or worse, tears. Likewise, the glue and foam don't like high temps.

 

[Hammerhead]

Per post #66 above, it is NOT recommended to use soap of any kind, as it can affect the foam and glue holding the stators together. So just plain water.

Also, be very careful of the temperatures the panel is exposed to. If the water is too hot, or the forced air during drying too hot, the diaphragm can shrink in uneven ways, leading to wrinkles, or worse, tears. Likewise, the glue and foam don't like high temps.

Ah. Didn't catch that post.

Even something gentle and biodegradable like diluted Simple Green would be a problem? I can see where Dawn might be too aggressive, but my plan was to use a diluted mixture of something to break up whatever oils or grease may have floated in there by misting it into the panel, letting it sit for a couple minutes, and then showering off. You think that's too much of a risk?

 

[JonFo]

I'm just not sure how little or much cleaner would be an issue, so I'd avoid it out of principle. If you use enough water pressure and it's warm, it should get oils off. Maybe not all, but enough. Re-read others success stories for how the various approaches worked.

Do clamp the panel edges once removed to ensure there is no separation during this process.

 

[Hammerhead]

I'm just not sure how little or much cleaner would be an issue, so I'd avoid it out of principle. If you use enough water pressure and it's warm, it should get oils off. Maybe not all, but enough. Re-read others success stories for how the various approaches worked.

Do clamp the panel edges once removed to ensure there is no separation during this process.

I've Seen The Light!

Last night I decided to take the risk and use some Simple Green along with the 'shower technique'. In my home, the speakers are uncomfortably close to the cooking area and that's never a good combination. I clamped the sides (thanks for the reminder), filled a mist bottle with some straight-up SimpleGreen, and sprayed the panels down on both sides for a total time of 2 minutes from start to finish. When doing the initial rinse, I could see the pollutants carried away, discoloring the foam making it sort of gray-ish. I then rinsed with warm water, and rinsed again with 3 gallons of distilled water since my tap water is very hard.

All I can say is that the results are... WOW.

Not only has the sonic performance been improved (those of you who have done this know what I'm talking about) but even those little 'spots' in the circles are all but gone. Many users have often overused this term, but the cleaning has certainly lifted the 'veil' on the sound.

So, I'm a True Believer. For those of you who have been wondering about using some sort of cleanser, it seems that the Simple Green has had no ill effects.

Thanks for everyone's advice.

 

[JonFo]

...
All I can say is that the results are... WOW.
...

Excellent, so good to hear!

Thanks for posting your process and results. The pic is a good addition to this thread, illustrating the clamps.

Please check and report back performance and condition of the foam/adhesives in the panel a few months from now, just to see if the cleaner had any side-effects. Hopefully none other than a cleaner panel.