Martin Logan 13A's and a subwoofer pairing question.

[Rich]

This looks pretty beefy.

TV3613 Home Theater Subwoofer - Power Sound Audio

Yeah, the TV3613 is a beast! Two 18” woofers and a 4000 watt amp! And only $750 more than a BF-210! ML simply can’t compete with that level of price/performance for a home theater sub. But you would definitely want a dedicated room for that kind of sub.

 

[Robert D]

Yes, those are the subs. On AVS forum, both Rythmik and PSA have sterling reputations for quality subs and great customer service.

ok. Ive read great things about Rythmik. In your opinion, between those 2 brands, which will you purchase?

 

[Robert D]

Yeah, the TV3613 is a beast! Two 18” woofers and a 4000 watt amp! And only $750 more than a BF-210! ML simply can’t compete with that level of price/performance for a home theater sub. But you would definitely want a dedicated room for that kind of sub.

I think id just get one of those and that would be plenty, lol. Cant imagine having two. That brand is supposed to be reliable and hold up over time? I see it has a 5 year warranty!

 

[Robert D]

Yeah, the TV3613 is a beast! Two 18” woofers and a 4000 watt amp! And only $750 more than a BF-210! ML simply can’t compete with that level of price/performance for a home theater sub. But you would definitely want a dedicated room for that kind of sub.

How are they supposed to do with music? Wondering how that would compare to the BF 210. I use one system for music and home theater.

 

[Rich]

Robert, between the two I prefer PSA and that’s what I’ll be purchasing. But I think they are both excellent and high quality. The head of PSA is one of the original founders of SVS. That should tell you something. Multiple smaller subs are always better than one big sub if you can swing it. Much easier to even out room modes with multiple subs and provide a more even response across multiple seats. And both the PSA’s and the Rythmik’s will keep up with ML’s for music. Rythmik’s servo technology and PSA’s amazing Italian-made B&C Neo woofers make for fast and accurate bass that will easily keep up with electrostatic speakers. You really can’t go wrong with either of these two brands.

 

[Omuracada]

My two Dynamo 1600X's arrived yesterday. I quickly set them up and outside of lowering the decibels I have done no calibration. That is set for this weekend. I will say it would be nice if the app gave you the option to configure both subs at the same time and an option to go back and do it independently. Not a big deal by any means just a make my life easier moment. With that said I have a questions for anyone that owns the 13a's and watches movies. Do you set them to large or are they set to small with a crossover. Right now I have them at small with a crossover of 40. Curious what others opinions are on this. Regardless I will look to come back in the next few days once I have run ARC and finally DIRAC to let you know my thoughts. I will say out of the box playing a few test movies, I was very impressed with what I heard. I know they are not ported however then can reach!

 

[ttocs]

I have a questions for anyone that owns the 13a's and watches movies. Do you set them to large or are they set to small with a crossover.

Mine are Large all the time. Even before I began using multiple subs with them, they were setup as Large in the processor.

The way mine are setup, there is no crossover between each 13A and its subwoofers. The Bass Control is reduced to -10dB, and each pair of subs are wired to each 13A via the Speaker Level Connections, plus, there is a fifth sub at the rear of the room for smoothing and this is shared between the pair of 13A's.

I agree that the ML app would be nicer if it had more capability for controlling multiple subs concurrently. But, the way it works as it is save soooo much time in dialing-in the settings!

 

[Omuracada]

Mine are Large all the time. Even before I began using multiple subs with them, they were setup as Large in the processor.

The way mine are setup, there is no crossover between each 13A and its subwoofers. The Bass Control is reduced to -10dB, and each pair of subs are wired to each 13A via the Speaker Level Connections, plus, there is a fifth sub at the rear of the room for smoothing and this is shared between the pair of 13A's.

I agree that the ML app would be nicer if it had more capability for controlling multiple subs concurrently. But, the way it works as it is save soooo much time in dialing-in the settings!

ttocs good to hear from you! you assisted me greatly on the Emotiva forums! I will try them at large tonight, I will keep the two subs going into the let and right sub channel of my emotiva and have them set to dual mono. this way the LFE still gets sent to them (correct?).

 

[Robert D]

Robert, between the two I prefer PSA and that’s what I’ll be purchasing. But I think they are both excellent and high quality. The head of PSA is one of the original founders of SVS. That should tell you something. Multiple smaller subs are always better than one big sub if you can swing it. Much easier to even out room modes with multiple subs and provide a more even response across multiple seats. And both the PSA’s and the Rythmik’s will keep up with ML’s for music. Rythmik’s servo technology and PSA’s amazing Italian-made B&C Neo woofers make for fast and accurate bass that will easily keep up with electrostatic speakers. You really can’t go wrong with either of these two brands.

Is PSA a servo system too? I expect yes?

 

[Robert D]

Great. Sounds like the subs worked out well for you.

 

[Omuracada]

Great. Sounds like the subs worked out well for you.

So far so good. For what I want to accomplish it looks as though I will be happy woth my selection. Once I find a house and I have a dedicated room things will be different. U til them I will enjoy what I have!

 

[ttocs]

ttocs good to hear from you! you assisted me greatly on the Emotiva forums! I will try them at large tonight, I will keep the two subs going into the let and right sub channel of my emotiva and have them set to dual mono. this way the LFE still gets sent to them (correct?).

Nice to "see" you too!

Yes, Dual Mono will get the .1 LFE channel in addition to the Bass Management for the Small channels when the Center Sub Output is not setup as LFE.

The hierarchy is as follows for our Emotiva processors (just as a recap):
Left Sub Mono: gets BM and LFE.
Left/Right Sub Dual Mono: both get BM and LFE.
Left/Right Sub, & Center Sub Mono: all three get BM and LFE.
Center Sub LFE, and any combination of other sub outputs in some flavor of Mono: Center Sub gets only LFE, anything setup for Mono gets BM.
Center Sub LFE, and no other subwoofers, Fronts Large: Center Sub gets only LFE, and BM is sent to Fronts Large.

To date, I still use Left Sub Mono and Center Sub LFE, and use miniDSP to route to a group of subs. BTW, I use the Emotiva VSUB transmitters and receivers to get across the room so I don't need long RCA cables.

 

[Robert D]

Nice to "see" you too!

Yes, Dual Mono will get the .1 LFE channel in addition to the Bass Management for the Small channels when the Center Sub Output is not setup as LFE.

The hierarchy is as follows for our Emotiva processors (just as a recap):
Left Sub Mono: gets BM and LFE.
Left/Right Sub Dual Mono: both get BM and LFE.
Left/Right Sub, & Center Sub Mono: all three get BM and LFE.
Center Sub LFE, and any combination of other sub outputs in some flavor of Mono: Center Sub gets only LFE, anything setup for Mono gets BM.
Center Sub LFE, and no other subwoofers, Fronts Large: Center Sub gets only LFE, and BM is sent to Fronts Large.

To date, I still use Left Sub Mono and Center Sub LFE, and use miniDSP to route to a group of subs. BTW, I use the Emotiva VSUB transmitters and receivers to get across the room so I don't need long RCA cables.

Do you feel like using the transmitters produces sound quality the same as using cables? I'd think with a sub it should be fine.

 

[Northy]

Rich, I know you have a lot of skin in this game like I do. My days of being impressed by an 18 inch subwoofer are long gone. Quality over quantity is my mantra for life - not only for audio. I understand you have a large room and want that sound pressure to be massive - all the power to you. But I know lightning fast, accurate, smear-free bass is my top priority. Since you mentioned the laws of physics, you know also that an 18 inch woofer is not as agile as a 10 inch woofer. So at the end of the day, it all boils down to your taste. You like Iron Mike's mighty raw punch. I like Sugar Ray's defined, lightning fast upper-cuts. We agree to disagree. In the words of @roberto, happy listening.

 

[BigGuy]

If this recession hits like I think it will, I will build a new home and spend on a home theater in the basement. Then I will pick up a 2nd BF 210. I could get another now, but I feel like the one is good enough! I'm like you and feel like they do well for home theater too.

My only complaint is the shaking crap on my walls. Doors, pictures, fireplace screen, etc. Even the candle sticks on the mantle may rattle. Just a pain. I need a room for home theater only, and will have the walls built decoupled. Maybe some insulation in the walls too. There are some places here in town that specialize in it.

Shaking all the crap is not bass...its an earthquake!

 

[ttocs]

Do you feel like using the transmitters produces sound quality the same as using cables? I'd think with a sub it should be fine.

I have not been able to find any problem with sound quality in the range below 150Hz that is carried by the wireless.

 

[Robert D]

Shaking all the crap is not bass...its an earthquake!

It surprised the hell out of me. My depth I shook some, but not like that. Running ARC on it took away some. The fact is you need a room with nothing hanging on the walls and no knick knacks sitting around. I have glass break sensors for the alarm and if I have the system on too loud, it triggers those. That's the high frequencies from the panels.

 

[Robert D]

I have not been able to find any problem with sound quality in the range below 150Hz that is carried by the wireless.

Does having subs sitting behind your sitting position have a benefit other than just getting more subs in the room, is the actual position behind you an important key? I'm interested.

 

[Rich]

Well, it appears O.P. has gotten his subwoofers and hopefully will be very happy with them. Definitely update us on how they sound once you get them dialed in.

 

[Fidji99]

My two Dynamo 1600X's arrived yesterday. I quickly set them up and outside of lowering the decibels I have done no calibration. That is set for this weekend. I will say it would be nice if the app gave you the option to configure both subs at the same time and an option to go back and do it independently. Not a big deal by any means just a make my life easier moment. With that said I have a questions for anyone that owns the 13a's and watches movies. Do you set them to large or are they set to small with a crossover. Right now I have them at small with a crossover of 40. Curious what others opinions are on this. Regardless I will look to come back in the next few days once I have run ARC and finally DIRAC to let you know my thoughts. I will say out of the box playing a few test movies, I was very impressed with what I heard. I know they are not ported however then can reach!

I have 7.4.4 setup currently.

For movies as Full Range [Large] and I also route Bass from Center to Fronts [gives very special sensation of very large center speaker]
For Stereo - I do Xover at 50Hz and play as 2.4 [this is room specific as I have deep null on combined stereo between 35-40Hz in MLP and is just annoying]