Jim Power is RETIRING!

[Double D]

I concur with TomDac, having been part of a "transition team" at my last shop, I know full well what that time can do to a person.
In my case it was a full shutdown of an operation that had been in business for almost 40 years ! Many of us had been with the place for more than half that time, and there was a huge amount of despair in dealing with it.
I had almost 20 years with them when the ball dropped, and then spent another 18months assisting with the shutdown. It was the longest 18 months you can imagine, each day was like going into a dying husk of something that had thrived.
So, here's perhaps another angle on this whole thing.. and Jim, if you're reading any of this "stuff".. take comfort in the fact that you've gotten out NOW. IF anyone ever has to go through these sorts of actions, you'd know what I'm talking about. It's demeaning, and does nothing to prop up your sense of self worth. If you are EVER given the option to take your package and leave, or be part of the "change".. take the damned money, walk away.. and get on with your life. In my situation, what was thought to be 3-6 months, turned into a VERY long 18 months.
Ironically.. when all this was going on, my system was singing like a siren (at that time I had ML Ascents ) and was one of the few things I managed to find comfort in at the end of the day.
I suspect that the changes at ML are only just beginning, and are reflective of the audio industry in general... I believe you'll be seeing more and more of a "shake down" going on as the market in general compresses.

 

[tonepub]

This has been a really wacky thread so far. All of you guys that are so passionate about Martin Logan are all ready to throw them under the bus because of recent developments.

Here's the reality so far. None of you (myself included) know what's really going on, or what the future holds, yet those of you that would have walked through glass three weeks ago are now all grumpy, selling your speakers and telling everyone Martin Logan is a terrible company.

No one likes to see their reality upset and because many of you have managed to develop what you consider a personal relationship with Jim Power, you feel like your friend is being cheated.

Again, none of you have enough information to know what really came down.

Yes, on one hand the (potentially) evil corporate entity may have taken advantage of your friend. But, I'd guess that reality is somewhere between what you think has happened and what has really happened.

Also, just to play devil's advocate, what would you all be saying if Jim Powers had died of a heart attack last week or killed in a plane crash? You'd all be pledging your support to Melanie and taking up donations for his wife. He would still be irreplaceable, but your attitude would be completely different, yet the players would be the same.

Everyone freaked out a number of years ago when McIntosh was acquired by a large company and for a few years things looked pretty dark. They went through four CEO's in as many years and a lot of the long term people were pretty nervous. Just like what's at ML, some of them left the company, some thought to be just as irreplaceable as Jim, but now under current CEO Charlie Randall, they are doing better than ever.

Audio Research has had a similar situation with their investor, and Sonus Faber is doing pretty well too.

So, I'm not saying it will work out this way for ML, but I'm also saying there is a decent chance it could. Paradigm and Anthem is still a big high end company and not everyone from ML has left.

This is the kind of thing that can seriously damage a company. What about all the other people that still work at ML and would like to keep their jobs?

For all of you ready to tell everyone not to buy a MartinLogan product right now, without knowing the future direction of the company, or exactly who the new players will be is somewhat premature.

In the 30 plus years I've been involved in hifi, I've seen the players change a lot, so don't be surprised if this isn't a different situation in a year. Every one of you that wanted to buy an ML product in the next year and doesn't, only underscores to the parent company that ML is not a worthwhile component of the product mix.

By giving you guys access to the factory and having close support with Jim Power, some of you act as if you have the right to be privy to make management decisions. Don't get confused. How many other companies, in any category have you had the privilege to get that close to?

Personally, I'm shocked that you are all so ready to abandon a company that for many of you has brought a lot of enjoyment to your lives, some of you for over ten, even over twenty years.

I do not mean to minimize the situation that has happened to Jim Power or the other people at Martin Logan that have lost employment throughout this transition. But if I leave you with anything that sticks, think of high end audio companies like a band. Members come, go and often return. Look at some of your favorite rock bands that have been around for 30 years. Some have had ten lineup changes...

Nothing would surprise me going forward. So before you are all ready to start spreading negativity about Martin Logan (or any other company for that matter) I'd take a step back and watch what develops.

 

[Double D]

My my... Jeff D woke up on the wrong side of the couch today..

Seriously.. you said much of what I wanted to say as well.. In reading through some of what's posted in angst in this thread makes me wonder as well. Simply because of a few corporate changes, many seem willing to abandon something that has been providing a great deal of joy in their lives. Well, if the attachment to the brand is that shallow, then perhaps the love wasn't so great to begin with ??

Now.. ultimately most are probably saying "Yeah but YOU'RE selling off your Vantages too"... and yes.. I am, but not because of the turmoil at ML or because Jim is moving on in life. My reasons for selling them off are to persue an alternate path.... it's that simple. I'll always have a soft spot for Stat's and Logans. I've owned many of them over the years, and hope to again. I still consider the ReQuest one of my fave speakers.. as well as the Ascent and Statement e2

 

[David Matz]

Jeff, you may be right that with time things may turn out alright. In fact, I hope you are right. However, this is not a good sign for the company.

I could understand a company in a bad economy trying to consolidate operations to cut costs. There are risks with that, however, they can be mitigated, as I discussed in the other thread. We were speculating in the other thread, and we still don't have all of the data. However, we have strong evidence here that not all is well...

I do think it is a big problem when a company does not realize that one of its largest assets is how it treated its customers in the past. I also think it's a big problem to cut someone who has been committed to customer focus as it were a cult and has made thousands upon thousands of owners happy. That is the kind of individual you want in your organization to make your culture even stronger. Obviously someone did not calculate the intangible value of that. Or the intangible value of disgruntled MLOC members.

The bottom line is that customers like to do business with someone they like. How frequently do you find someone buying a car from a salesman they just plain like for many years or an audio guy buying audio research just because they like the company, without ever even trying to hear what CJ can do? Jim Power was that likable guy who made the Logan experience better and many people bought Martin Logan speaker because he was associated with the brand. (Disclaimer: I have attended one of the best business schools in the world. However, I did not just focus on the Finance classes. I got a very well rounded education that encouraged me to think holistically.)

 

[spectral]

By giving you guys access to the factory and having close support with Jim Power, some of you act as if you have the right to be privy to make management decisions. Don't get confused. How many other companies, in any category have you had the privilege to get that close to?

To be honest, in every company I've been to in the IT space all the deep pockets have had direct access to the CEO, and VPs of Sales, Development and Marketing - and I mean that literally. It's how things usually work. The folks here who claim to know JP well enough have probably invested a lot of money into ML products, and can thus be considered deep pockets.

No, we don't have the right to make management decisions and I don't think we are - some of us are simply venting our displeasure with the events, as any customer deeply invested in one's products would. We would be venting equally "loudly" if, say, there were serious performance issues with these products (a la Toyota or Mercedes in the past), just as we are so prompt to praise the sound that these speakers make. I don't see a particular bias or privilege, just honest expression of opinion.

Being privied in this industry is actually not unusual either. For example, I have personally been invited to Spectral's factory (but never took them up on it) when I raised significant issues with their products in private communication or via the dealer - they wanted to *talk* to me, and did so happily over fax instead (and this, from one of the most inflexible companies that I am aware of). From what I hear, this is not uncommon at all. Another example, Peter Suchy visits the ACA club members from time to time, and perhaps some have paid respective visits to Clearaudio; a friend of mine just asked to visit the ARC factory and they gladly took him in (OK, he's been an ARC fan for decades).

With respect to ML, I hate what I see, but I keep a cold perspective. For now, I am going in this Saturday to audition the Summit X, 'cause the dealer is trying to persuade me that the Prodigies that I am seeking don't stack up to them. (Yes, of course he's trying to sell me the expensive new speaker, but he has a HELL of a fine ear too). In the end, though, I do not only buy into a product but the company behind it as well, and it looks like a lot of people here feel the same way.

I agree, all your other points are well articulated.

 

[tonepub]

David, I agree with you on one level, but if you aren't spending time at ML and sitting in management meetings, you don't have strong evidence of anything. None of us do.

If I had to guess, I would bet that there is plenty that can't be discussed here for obvious reasons. Would you be airing your potential management decisions on an internet forum if it were your company? Probably not.

While Jim is a great guy who did a lot for Martin logan, he's kind of like the phone repair guy. You don't know who he is until you need him. I have to believe that the majority of ML owners have no idea who Jim Power is, because they've never had a problem. This is evidenced by the fact that there are only a couple people in customer service at ML.

So for my money, I'm going to hang in there and see what their next move is, and probably the next four moves after that. I'm not ready to give up on a company that's been a big part of high end audio history just yet.

 

[Rich]

Jeff, I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. But I just can't agree. I think we have enough information to have a very good idea of where ML is headed. And it ain't pretty.

I'm not saying I can't be wrong, but I have seen this scenario play out too many times at too many different companies. And honestly, even if they do continue to make quality high end speakers and offer stellar customer service (both of which I think are seriously in doubt at this point), I can't continue to give my money and support to this style of management.

I own amps and preamps from Conrad Johnson, Pass Labs, Audio Research, and Sanders Sound. I like variety in my high end audio components. But, aside from a pair of LSI bookshelf speakers, I only own one brand of speaker. I bought my first pair because of the sound. But I continued to buy more of them because I liked the company. I liked the fact that they were a small company producing quality speakers in the heartland of America. I liked that they valued their customers and placed quality and customer service high on their list of priorities. I liked the people; I liked the values of the company; and I liked the products they produced. So I continued to support them with my dollars and my recommendations to others.

I have actually been a little concerned about the direction they were taking for a couple of years now, but I said nothing about it. The push into the Best Buy and the home theater market showed that their focus was expanding beyond hifi and that was concerning to me. But I remained a rabid fan and gave them the benefit of the doubt to "wait and see what happens." Well, I don't really have to wait and see anymore. The writing is clearly written on the wall.

With the actions they are taking now, by hiring a new CEO with no experience in the business, merging production with the Paradigm facility, and pushing out long-time valuable experienced employees like Jim Power, it is clear to me that this company has fundamentally changed for the worse. Every value that the former company held dear, I believe the new company is forsaking in the quest for profits.

I know I don't have any control over their management decisions, but I do have control over my loyalty as a customer and over where I spend my dollars. With the actions they have taken at ML in the last few months, they have lost my loyalty as a customer. Simple as that.

My next speakers may be Soundlabs; they may be Maggies; they may be something entirely different (like the German Physiks that I was so impressed with at RMAF), but they will not be MartinLogan. I have completely lost respect and confidence for this company at this point. And considering I have spent upwards of $25,000 on MartinLogan speakers over the last decade, I would say that is a big loss on their part. And I seriously doubt mine is the only business they will lose through these boneheaded decisions.

 

[timm]

Good GRIEF!!! Thank you Jeff.....What I was trying to say.. but hey - you're a writer!! My point way above was - 'where are they headed'? - more or less...Into a more mass marketed product like their latest HT products - or are they going to continue to grow the high end and let it trickle down in their other product lines? The 'lets wait and see' - is the only possible approach. I purchase speakers because I think they sound good... If they don't sound good in the future - I won't buy them.

 

[Steelhead]

It is very easy for you to say that most do not understand the behind the scenes or corporate meetings. Of course most do not. How could we?

All you can do is to gather as much information as is available and make your comments on sites or said corporate decisions. Jim Power is one of the best customer service representatives that I have ever run across and people are understandably upset. You have a vested interest in ML with your association with your magazine and that is fine. It is understandable that you would inclined to put up a defense or "wait and see" policy.

Just as you can show some corporate decisions that caused a products reputation to remain intact one can also pick out others and show the opposite.

I was the poster that informed Tom of Jim leaving (as he just told me he was leaving in 2 weeks). I emailed Tom as I thought it better for him to address it as the club president than me being a town crier so to speak. I knew the club members would want to know. Unfortunately, the more we know the less we like it.

I am not going to throw out my ReQuests and Summits in the garbage pickup this weekend because of the decision, However, I am going to hold "The Great American Speaker Company" accountable for their actions in my small way.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Jeff,

With all due respect, I think you trying to wear too many hats.

I see it in my line of work, which occasionally consists of trying to function in a political arena, way too often.

As I previously stated, I too have been on the fence and have been watching events unfold.

And as others have stated, I hope you are right.

Best,

Gordon

 

[kwr]

While Jim is a great guy who did a lot for Martin logan, he's kind of like the phone repair guy. You don't know who he is until you need him.

QUOTE]

I think that this is precisely the point. At the time that the product may not be meeting expectations is the point that you may get to meet the class act that is Jim Powers.

There are plenty of great speakers out there. Creating an aura in a substantive way with capable support applies to all of MLs customers - suppliers, distributors, dealers and end users.

Jim Power is the sort of guy that you up his salary, get him to sign a contract and retain the aura of great customer service.

I have had a single dealing with Jim - a reply to an email in less than 24 hrs regarding replacement panels for our Monoliths. Courteous, informative prompt and to the point.

Profit is not everything - return custom is. Long term business is not run on short term profit.

Kevin

 

[timm]

Can we stick to some facts and stop letting emotions get in the way?
Fact: Jim power will not be working for ml
fact: by all accounts there ar still some good people in customer support
fact: I haven't seen any proof of reduction in r&d
fact: nobody has shown that quality will be diminished because of these changes
fact: everbody's speakers sound the same today as they did two weeks ago. In fact some may sound better because of break in.

So in the end everybody here has a whole lot of nothin and is jumping to conclusions without seeing any new product etc. I know that ml came out with one of the best speakers in the world in the clx fairly recently

And for the record - I hate corporate buyouts and the downsizing /outsourcing as much if not More than anyone here I work in the auto industry and have seen my share of carnage.

So for these reasons I agree with Jeff. This is nothing political ithink a wait and see attitude (based on product) is prudent

 

[Jimna]

i agree with gordan(about jeff), at what point does your opinion get swayed by your sponsors? ML is a tone supporter. im not saying that is the case here but it crossed my mind, and you should realize others do too.

 

[Gordon Gray]

timm,

Appreciate your post. I always try to be a rational based person and eschew speculation.

However, my sense is that JP is a victim of "down sizing" and may very well speak to the current / future corporate mentality that is in control of ML's future.

We've all know about the canary in the coal mine.

I truly hope that I am wrong.

Gordon

 

[tonepub]

Well, we'll see. I have to hope for the best, but again, another example of this is a company like Focal and their Utopia series.

They make the bulk of their money on selling product under $5000 and sometimes way under, but the extent of engineering and R&D allows them to be big enough to make a successful product like the XS for $499, yet selling a lot of product in the 1000-5000 range allows them the luxury to make statement products like the Utopia, which generates the raw research to benefit the whole line.

So, for me when I saw MartinLogan taking a mass market approach with lower end product, I thought it was a good idea, because it might take some of the pressure off of their flagship products as a revenue stream.

Honda never made a penny on the NSX, but they made it for years as a display of their manufacturing technology.

Again, we'll see how it plays out.

 

[tonepub]

i agree with gordan(about jeff), at what point does your opinion get swayed by your sponsors? ML is a tone supporter. im not saying that is the case here but it crossed my mind, and you should realize others do too.

Of course ML is an advertiser, but guess what, if they are truly downsizing, I'll be the first place they cut back. And unlike my competitors in print, our ad rates aren't such that someone leaving will put me in bankruptcy court, nor will someone new coming on board make me a rich man either. If ML goes away, I'll miss them for the same reasons you do. While they have been a TONE advertiser for three years, I've been an ML customer for 25. Considering what I've bought from ML over the last 25 years, including my Summits, Descents and CLX's, I've given them WAY more money than they've given me.

And I certainly don't think my opinion is anything that is going to sway you guys or ML one way or another. I'm just reporting on what I've seen in the high end industry over the last ten years. I would like to think that you are all adults with a fair amount of intelligence and free will. But I've seen audio companies in much more squirrelly situations than this come back from the dead.

 

[Soren]

I will reiterate that all who care should write to ML management. Why? It is not a given that the new management knows how big a deal Jim Power is to the customers. I’ve known and met quite a few of these business-optimization-managers. 10 years ago I had a neighbor, who one year was managing a helicopter rental company, the next year he was trying to built up a web company that found clients the best hotel deal. I don’t know the new ML management, however, they might not know exactly what they are doing, and everyone can certainly write them a polite letter and offer them some help. After all, in my case, I was not asking them to whole-sale change their Canadian outsourcing strategy, but rather to hedge their bets and offer a little “insurance” for old customers. Is it a “fact” that JP is a goner? Well if those who care don’t express that they do, sure thing! You would be amazed what a difference 20–30 letters sometimes can make.
So if you care about Jim Power, write ML-Management. Write something you are comfortable with and be polite (I changed a couple words in the letter I sent to be less provocative, because I did not intend to be that). What do you/we have to loose?
My 44-cents and half an hour…
PS: I don’t know the other two customer support people, but I believe they are fine people. However, who knows when they are up?

 

[Pcar928fan]

My question... Is that still the correct address to send a note of support for JP to at ML HQ?

 

[Soren]

My question... Is that still the correct address to send a note of support for JP to at ML HQ?

I went to Martin Logan's webpages (http://www.martinlogan.com/support/index.php) and found:

Contact Us
MartinLogan
2101 Delaware St.
Lawrence, KS 66046
U.S.A.

phone: (785) 749-0133

email: [email protected]

 

[Rich]

Can we stick to some facts and stop letting emotions get in the way?

OK, let's play that game.

Fact: MartinLogan just shut down production of their ESL speakers at the facility they have been produced at for thirty years and is moving that production to another country.

Fact: MartinLogan fired most of the production staff that have been making these speakers for the last several decades.

Fact: MartinLogan is moving production of these speakers to a manufacturing facility that has heretofore specialized in manufacturing traditional box speakers with cone drivers.

Fact: MartinLogan instituted a marketing campaign boasting that their speakers were "made in the heartland" just a few months before shifting production to another country.

Fact: The current CEO of MartinLogan is based in Canada, has been on the job less than a year, is in charge of both MartinLogan and Paradigm, and has absolutely no prior work experience in the audio industry. His last job was at a company manufacturing chimney vents and his claim to fame there was consolidation of operations and cost cutting.

Fact: MartinLogan just fired Jim Power, who is revered among ML enthusiasts for his renowned customer service.

Fact: MartinLogan has recently made clear that they do not intend to continue to support all older models indefinitely. This is something that has never before been suggested by this company, which has built a name for itself for its dedication to customer service.

Fact: Over the last five years, Martin Logan has come out with one single innovative speaker that pushes the current state of the art in electrostatic speaker design, the CLX. This speaker was in R&D for at least two to three years before it was released in 2008. It is quite likely that development of this speaker began even before current management took over ML in October of 2005.

Fact: The crossover technology from the CLX was applied to the Summit to create the Summit X and they took one woofer out of that to create the Spire. Other than that crossover technology and some esthetics, the Summit X and Spire are just not much different from the Summit and Vantage from five years ago. So really, the CLX is the only innovation at the high end from this company in five years.

Fact: Over the last five years, Martin Logan has introduced almost a dozen different speaker models costing less than $1500 a pair which do not utilize MartinLogan's ESL driver, not to mention several inexpensive center channels and three subwoofers that retail for under a grand. All of these new models are intended for the home theater market and are a far cry from the high end of audio.



Ok, those are just a few of the relevant facts that I could think of off the top of my head. Tell me, timm, looking at your list of facts and mine, and making reasonable inferences from those facts, whose point of view is best supported by the facts? I really don't think I am jumping to conclusions. And I don't need a weather man to tell me which way the wind is blowing.