Integrated Amp Choice?

[InterMechanico]

Good point, Bonzo. I agree as well.

 

[Jemplayer]

Well, I'm just sick of the hype. The hyper-pricing , especially of stuff that's actually made in China. How often does someone TRULY listen and audition vs just look at price tags and go from there? There are other choices that sound as good as Krell for less money. Problem is....no one tests the stuff logically it's all this price opinionalysis. I have read total nonsense that "Amps just don't sound that good below the $10,000 price point". Nonsense. If it takes a blind test...fine.... but $2200 for a USED integrated? No thanks.

I had a krell 300i, Plinius 9100, and a Opera consonance (Chinese) calaf integrated. All at the same time. The opera consonance was head and shoulders above the former two, and another (member here won't know) as is a local South African brand, valve audio predator. I of course was looking for a integrated to drive my summits as I like simple clean systems.

Since then, I have audited some other much more expensive mono block gear, the stuff dreams are made of. I didn't see or hear any thing that would make me take the calaf out. I am thinking their may be a ceiling here. I expected the separates at least to be much better, they wer not. Maybe I'm deaf, who knows.

 

[bonzo]

I had a krell 300i, Plinius 9100, and a Opera consonance (Chinese) calaf integrated. All at the same time. The opera consonance was head and shoulders above the former two, and another (member here won't know) as is a local South African brand, valve audio predator. I of course was looking for a integrated to drive my summits as I like simple clean systems.

Since then, I have audited some other much more expensive mono block gear, the stuff dreams are made of. I didn't see or hear any thing that would make me take the calaf out. I am thinking their may be a ceiling here. I expected the separates at least to be much better, they wer not. Maybe I'm deaf, who knows.

My AR Ref 3 + ref 110 was much superior to me Krell 300i in driving Summits. I don't like AR integrated at all. Dunno about Opera

 

[Scottinwa]

You're also right. It is my perception and, more importantly, my strong belief.

Check out the "Conclusive Proof" thread on the What's Best Forum / Main Discussion section of their website.

Get comfortable. You may find it interesting if you want to read through some 1,000+ posts on the "objective" topic and the validity of "tests".

Dating back to the 80's stereo review tests, the Levinson Carver test, Dunlavy and many more, they PROVE to be ego crushers for audio snobs. That is...audio snobs listen with the wallet all top often. "There is no way a $2,000 amp can sound as good as a $10,000 amp" but...in every single DBT I have witnessed... the snobbery is crushed by fact. No, the average snob does not have superhuman hearing that can detect clouds scraping or the difference between an adcom and a levinson. It's all fake. I have seen too many ****ed off snobs since 1988 to ever think the DBT has any downsides.

I laughed HARD when snobs were proven to hallucinate when they could not tell the difference in amps or cables. It was totally awesome to see chest-puffing snobs beaten like a lying child when they could not tell the difference. No one has beaten Richard Clarks $10,000 amp challenge. It's hilarious to think someone can hear better than measurement equipment.

 

[InterMechanico]

Dating back to the 80's stereo review tests, the Levinson Carver test, Dunlavy and many more, they PROVE to be ego crushers for audio snobs. That is...audio snobs listen with the wallet all top often. "There is no way a $2,000 amp can sound as good as a $10,000 amp" but...in every single DBT I have witnessed... the snobbery is crushed by fact. No, the average snob does not have superhuman hearing that can detect clouds scraping or the difference between an adcom and a levinson. It's all fake. I have seen too many ****ed off snobs since 1988 to ever think the DBT has any downsides.

I laughed HARD when snobs were proven to hallucinate when they could not tell the difference in amps or cables. It was totally awesome to see chest-puffing snobs beaten like a lying child when they could not tell the difference. No one has beaten Richard Clarks $10,000 amp challenge. It's hilarious to think someone can hear better than measurement equipment.

Well, people like what they like, right? I don't think it's any more acceptable to be shouting people down from one side or the other, frankly. If you don't hear a difference in sound quality, you shouldn't buy the component. That's pretty reasonable.

As far as measuring equipment being superior to the human ear, I will respectfully disagree. Software makes it possible to quantify what we're hearing, however, IMO the technology is not equal to 4 million+ years of evolution. We still use dogs to find bombs and drugs because they succeed more often than machines. Remember that the best machine is still something designed and built by a human, with all our inherent limitations.


(My gear is not expensive, FYI)

 

[GaryG]

Well, I'm just sick of the hype. The hyper-pricing , especially of stuff that's actually made in China. How often does someone TRULY listen and audition vs just look at price tags and go from there? There are other choices that sound as good as Krell for less money. Problem is....no one tests the stuff logically it's all this price opinionalysis. I have read total nonsense that "Amps just don't sound that good below the $10,000 price point". Nonsense. If it takes a blind test...fine.... but $2200 for a USED integrated? No thanks.

Free market capitalism brings us choices and I like choices. If you don't like the hype, if you don't like the hyper-pricing, your solution is simple. Don't buy the product. For me, I like the freedom of choice.

 

[GaryG]

Any recommendations for a cd player? Thanks!

Oppo. The current model 103 Oppo is only $600 and as a universal player it will handle almost any format (cd, sacd, dvd-a, blu ray, vcd). No need to go up to the Oppo 105 unless you are into high end analog. Performance is outstanding. You will find Oppo's in many high end systems.

Gary

 

[asindc]

A friend of mine raves about his Cary SLI-80, which he has at his beach house. I haven't heard it yet myself, but I trust his ears and he just loves it.

 

[longhorn]

Back to the original topic, try out the Wyred4Sound mINT. It has gotten rave reviews and W4S has a bundle deal with Martin Logan. That bundle was on display at the California Audio show, got some good reviews.

https://wyred4sound.com/products/integrated-amps/wyred-4-sound-martin-logan-special-offer

 

[Jemplayer]

Back to the original topic, try out the Wyred4Sound mINT. It has gotten rave reviews and W4S has a bundle deal with Martin Logan. That bundle was on display at the California Audio show, got some good reviews.

https://wyred4sound.com/products/integrated-amps/wyred-4-sound-martin-logan-special-offer

I tried the wyred two channel 250 watt power amp with their pre, Was not impressed. I was expecting much better and hoping for it as I wanted something that used very little power. A lot of hype that stuff IMO.

You can buy the rotel version for half the price, it's the same ice boards in both.

 

[Scottinwa]

I had a krell 300i, Plinius 9100, and a Opera consonance (Chinese) calaf integrated. All at the same time. The opera consonance was head and shoulders above the former two, and another (member here won't know) as is a local South African brand, valve audio predator. I of course was looking for a integrated to drive my summits as I like simple clean systems.

Since then, I have audited some other much more expensive mono block gear, the stuff dreams are made of. I didn't see or hear any thing that would make me take the calaf out. I am thinking their may be a ceiling here. I expected the separates at least to be much better, they wer not. Maybe I'm deaf, who knows.

That's not a double blind decision, but ok...

 

[Jemplayer]

That's not a double blind decision, but ok...

Never was intended as a dbt, just amplifying your point on over priced gear marketed with sentiment and unsubstantiated claims, this stuff is not any better than the cheaper well designed and built amp that costs $2000. I have gone though so much gear, and was deflated by how much of the "gotta have" stuff just was nothing special at all.

 

[upbeatdownbeat]

I'm new to the forum presently am driving ML Montis with a Vincent SV235MkII hybrid integrated that I bought used at a really good price. Was using an Eastern Electric KT88 valve amp. We hear with our ears and see with our wallet. I agree that the small incremental increases in measurable bench quality do not justify the high prices charged. Your not buying statistics. You should be buying total sound quality so always try to listen to a amp-speaker system together. Not being able to audition your system, read as many evaluations and take a look at what they were using as a system. You will never buy the perfect combo if you are a true sound addict. I love the sound of tube valve amps but have now found a reasonable priced hybrid that lets me roll pre-amp with a powerful solid state output.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dating back to the 80's stereo review tests, the Levinson Carver test, Dunlavy and many more, they PROVE to be ego crushers for audio snobs. That is...audio snobs listen with the wallet all top often. "There is no way a $2,000 amp can sound as good as a $10,000 amp" but...in every single DBT I have witnessed... the snobbery is crushed by fact. No, the average snob does not have superhuman hearing that can detect clouds scraping or the difference between an adcom and a levinson. It's all fake. I have seen too many ****ed off snobs since 1988 to ever think the DBT has any downsides.

I laughed HARD when snobs were proven to hallucinate when they could not tell the difference in amps or cables. It was totally awesome to see chest-puffing snobs beaten like a lying child when they could not tell the difference. No one has beaten Richard Clarks $10,000 amp challenge. It's hilarious to think someone can hear better than measurement equipment.

How childish and ill informed.

 

[InterMechanico]

How childish and ill informed.

Dr. Bag, I presume...