So true. I was floored with the soundstage on Gordon's speakers off-axis when I visited him this past summer. And I mean way off-axis. Omnis are truly amazing in this respect.
If you had to choose a NON planar speaker, what would it be?
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So true. I was floored with the soundstage on Gordon's speakers off-axis when I visited him this past summer. And I mean way off-axis. Omnis are truly amazing in this respect.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Steve,
That's a big concern since I usually sit off axis. MBL's do quite well for off axis listening.
I've posed this question to three different folks who are familiar with YG's off axis performance.
It will certainly be different but I've been told they perform quite well with the expected loss of some focus.
I'll know alot more in a month or so assuming I can make this all work.
Gordon
That's a big concern since I usually sit off axis. MBL's do quite well for off axis listening.
I've posed this question to three different folks who are familiar with YG's off axis performance.
It will certainly be different but I've been told they perform quite well with the expected loss of some focus.
I'll know alot more in a month or so assuming I can make this all work.
Gordon
User211
Well-known member
I agree with that on the 116Fs you know I am familiar with, but you still have to be in the middle to get the best results. Quite well IS accurate for that speaker, I think. I've just been reviewing a box speaker that was really good up to 30 degrees off-axis - the designer reckons +/- 2DB anywhere within the 30 degrees and I think I actually believe him, LOL.
User211
Well-known member
Here is that loudspeaker with one of my geetars, to give the illusion of musicality, if you fall for that kind of thing, LOL. It uses a SEAS dome tweeter and an 8.5 inch driver design for a Linkwitz speaker, so I was told. I haven't verified that, though.
It was made by a chum who gave up engineering to, well, engineer loudspeakers.
It was made by a chum who gave up engineering to, well, engineer loudspeakers.
slowGEEZR
Well-known member
Very good looking, both speaker and guitar.
User211
Well-known member
The guitar is a Gibson Custom Shop jobbie in solid Koa - 1 of 24. Spent a good week with the speakers, which I thought were very good within the design constraints. Then I plugged the Apogees back in and it was one of those jaw dropping moments that made me realise why I bother
The difference in performance was truly staggering.
EDIT: the comparison is totally unfair, however. Not sure what my speakers would retail for these days but it'd be a lot more than the Rhapsody.
The difference in performance was truly staggering.EDIT: the comparison is totally unfair, however. Not sure what my speakers would retail for these days but it'd be a lot more than the Rhapsody.
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Bernard
Well-known member
Justin, don't you also have a new vehicle in the works? Or am I thinking about the new Apogees?
beek
Well-known member
Agree, this guy is a Nut he gets rid of speakers because they don't do cello right
but the fact that it is still a dynamic driver with all its limitations
I cant see how any dynamic can have the response time of a planar driver be it stat or magnet
but the fact that it is still a dynamic driver with all its limitations
I cant see how any dynamic can have the response time of a planar driver be it stat or magnet
beek
Well-known member
got the ok
in the process of adding new woofers & x/o tweaks which should take in down a few db
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Enough please
Bill,
I've been polite so far but....................................
Sorry but your comments about YG are ignorant and uninformed.
All transducers have limitations, including ML.
Can't see how a dynamic driver can have the response time of a planar driver be it stat or magnet?
Everyone knows that planars that are not set up correctly, including room treatments and ancillary gear, can compromise perceived "response time".
Best,
Gordon
PS: I am not a YG "fanboy" but I will have a much better idea in a month or so.
Bill,
I've been polite so far but....................................
Sorry but your comments about YG are ignorant and uninformed.
All transducers have limitations, including ML.
Can't see how a dynamic driver can have the response time of a planar driver be it stat or magnet?
Everyone knows that planars that are not set up correctly, including room treatments and ancillary gear, can compromise perceived "response time".
Best,
Gordon
PS: I am not a YG "fanboy" but I will have a much better idea in a month or so.
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beek
Well-known member
Newton's second law of motion states that F=ma. This means that the amount of energy it takes to get something moving is directly proportional to its mass. Newton's second law is why low-mass drivers have such excellent transient response.
A well-designed electrostat offers the most linear and completely uniform diaphragm motion of any class of loudspeaker (and very low IM distortion as a result), as well as the potential for the best pulse response.
all drivers have problems but a 86 yr. old technology with updated cone materials doesn't do anything for transient ability except add a coloration consistent with the material itself
unless you wanna play around with gas or plasma discharge products that are clearly the winner but not perfected yet
p.s. I had my glasses on for this save your money
A well-designed electrostat offers the most linear and completely uniform diaphragm motion of any class of loudspeaker (and very low IM distortion as a result), as well as the potential for the best pulse response.
all drivers have problems but a 86 yr. old technology with updated cone materials doesn't do anything for transient ability except add a coloration consistent with the material itself
unless you wanna play around with gas or plasma discharge products that are clearly the winner but not perfected yet
p.s. I had my glasses on for this save your money
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
With all due respect, rest assured that I don't need your advice regarding how I spend my money.
PS: Having said that, speaker preference is a very personal decision and only that individual can determine ultimate value.
PS: Having said that, speaker preference is a very personal decision and only that individual can determine ultimate value.
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beek
Well-known member
Gordon I dident point at You but you took offense for some reason, by the way composers who work in a orchestral setting every day like musicians do know what good sound is. This particular person was driving his YG's with an amp/pre combo that costs in excess of more than 1/4 mill so it was very up to snuff.
Back to which non-planar one could chose, I'm surprised few (none?) have mentioned line-arrays, as one of the attributes of an ML ESL is that it does indeed project as a line-array.
So for me, the best commercial line-array out there now is the Scanea
But there are any number of cool kits or DIY Line-arrays that deliver amazing performance at a fraction of the cost of some of the box models being discussed.
Personally, I'd DIY some 7' or 8' tall arrays using the following drivers:
Highs - An AMT-based tweeter, the super-sized DaytonAudio AMT-4 pro
Mid-bass: A superb 6 1/2" or 7" driver that can play clean up into the 1.5Khz range with super-low distortion characteristics (there are several that qualify)
Build a suitable baffle for the drivers, use exiting speaker processors and amps and I could have something like this for under $10K for all five speakers.
From a pure dynamics perspective, that would be better than any ML.
So for me, the best commercial line-array out there now is the Scanea
But there are any number of cool kits or DIY Line-arrays that deliver amazing performance at a fraction of the cost of some of the box models being discussed.
Personally, I'd DIY some 7' or 8' tall arrays using the following drivers:
Highs - An AMT-based tweeter, the super-sized DaytonAudio AMT-4 pro
Mid-bass: A superb 6 1/2" or 7" driver that can play clean up into the 1.5Khz range with super-low distortion characteristics (there are several that qualify)
Build a suitable baffle for the drivers, use exiting speaker processors and amps and I could have something like this for under $10K for all five speakers.
From a pure dynamics perspective, that would be better than any ML.
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This! The Scaena is among the finest sounding speakers I have ever heard.
User211
Well-known member
That Merc is in Cubanite Silver - my new speaker covers are in the paint shop now being sprayed exactly that colour.
Nice, Justin. Can't wait to see pics when they are finished. You will show pics, won't you? Unlike some other deadbeats on this forum... :devil:
User211
Well-known member
I could show you their rear end now, Rich, if it'd get past the censor, LOL.
User211
Well-known member
Couple of pics - back of the new Apogees. Front covers at the paint shop at the mo turning into Cubanite silver. Whether you like it or not it is definitely a much better room match than the Benitoite Blue of the pair I have now.
The paint on the back is durable and won't scratch like metallic car paint. Useful when placing them on the "operating table" for tweaking etc. The aluminium bracing crossbars you can see will be painted the same colour as I think breaking up the bass driver's magnet array looks cooler than all black would be, though that choice is a close shave. Both would look fine.
There are bracing bars you can't see and the MDF is twice the thickness of the original design. The stands bolt into the bracing bars. This frame will not move. One "^&*ing strongly made loudspeaker. Just hope it can be moved.
Clamps holding the bass driver are partially aluminium, unlike the MDF of the originals.
Loadsa holes for the super-heavy duty stands and front cover mounting. You should see a 1cm border of car paint round the edges when done as the backs are recessed into the cover.
The bass foam used now is good for 20 years according to the refurbisher.
It'll look better when it is all together. Trust me. Lick or two more paint to go on. But maybe I should have done them in Jag Red!
The paint on the back is durable and won't scratch like metallic car paint. Useful when placing them on the "operating table" for tweaking etc. The aluminium bracing crossbars you can see will be painted the same colour as I think breaking up the bass driver's magnet array looks cooler than all black would be, though that choice is a close shave. Both would look fine.
There are bracing bars you can't see and the MDF is twice the thickness of the original design. The stands bolt into the bracing bars. This frame will not move. One "^&*ing strongly made loudspeaker. Just hope it can be moved.
Clamps holding the bass driver are partially aluminium, unlike the MDF of the originals.
Loadsa holes for the super-heavy duty stands and front cover mounting. You should see a 1cm border of car paint round the edges when done as the backs are recessed into the cover.
The bass foam used now is good for 20 years according to the refurbisher.
It'll look better when it is all together. Trust me. Lick or two more paint to go on. But maybe I should have done them in Jag Red!
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