I want to take my system to the next level ,help me please !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fattner]

Hi everyone ,I have that itch so I need help ,I want to take my system to the next level ,I have pair of clsiiz for about 4 yrs ,they sound very good (but dnt know what new ones would sound like ) I vacuum and use the hair dyer periodically , my electronics are jolida tube mono block jd3000a (200wtt/ch) jolida tube pre amp music envoy,jolida ,tube cd player and Marantz TT15 turntable .my room is a dedicated audio room 20x30 with dedicated 20amp circuit x2 all hospital grade outlets.here is my question ,I want to take this system to the wow level ,so what upgrade is the most effective for the money so do I ,1) new stator panels ,2) higher power amp and if so which one ? do like mac stuff but expensive also like the emotive xpr1 gen 2 3) tube rolling which I know nothing about ,lol.....help ,ps I love my speakers so I just want them at there full potential . my system sound great as is but I want that wow factor thanks to all

 

[InterMechanico]

A high quality powered subwoofer to take the Low Frequency load off the ESLs. If you go with one of the ML Balanced Force subs, you can take advantage of the specific filter for your CLS2Z.

 

[fattner]

A high quality powered subwoofer to take the Low Frequency load off the ESLs. If you go with one of the ML Balanced Force subs, you can take advantage of the specific filter for your CLS2Z.

really that will do you think ?? 2 or one and do you know the ml name of the sub that will match will with my clsiiz? price ?

 

[roberto]

Hola. Intermecanico is right with his recommendation. Two BF-210 will put you in heaven. The CLSIIz are one of a kind. Cut them circa 50Hz, and you will be in other dimension. The CLSIIz are not capable to play very deep bass notes, and these new Balanced Forward subs are very good. The trick is add just a little bass, and take from their diaphragm the bass notes. I had mines for over 12 years. Just add enough bass, but taking care that the bass player is at the stage all the time. What I mean is, hi level deeper notes could bring the bass player next to your seat. But deeper notes, will open up the stage. The CLS will sing better and will continue to produce a super high resolution. Remember that what you should have is quality bass notes, not quantity. Happy listening!

 

[fattner]

so you guys think my electronics are good? no panels needed either ?

 

[roberto]

When you have bad panels, the problem is very evident. Part of the stat panel does not produce any sound, or weak. Also high frequency notes are completely lost. This is not your case. Your panels are singing nicely, and your electronics are OK. Changing the electronics, is like changing the living room furniture, but the house is the same. Adding subs, will make to have free of low frequency the stat panels, and these will be more dynamic and singing freely. Because the CLS are really fast, you need subs with great speed. The BF-210 will work, and also the Depth I model. Try to demo at your own place. Happy listening.

 

[topofroc]

I had a jolida integrated (502 CRC) not too long ago connected to my ML Vantages. It gave me the sound of tubes, but it was very rolled off in the high frequencies. I later replaced it with a restored Mcintosh MC2200 (the no meter version of the MC2205). That totally did the trick. A warm sound (although not the full tube sound), but with the full spectrum and way better soundstage. The Mac gripped the panels way better than the Jolida. BTW - I purchased the amp from a guy on craigslist for $600. While that might not happen every day, you can get restored Mac SS amps for $1k-2k fairly regularly. For your CLS's, I would recommend a MC2300 - can handle the impedance dips of electrostats and has 300w on tap.

A sub would be a nice addition too, but I think swapping out the Jolida would make a bigger impact, based on my experience. If your determined to stick with tubes, I would look at an MC275 VI. It's much more coin ($3.5k used, if you're lucky). My wife and I auditioned a new MC275 with a pair of ML Montis and they were great. My wife (not an audiophile) upon hearing them, turned to me and said "Babe - maybe we should start setting aside some money to get that amp.".
I fell in love all over again

 

[fattner]

thanks ,my jolida are the big mono blks 200wtt/ch of tube power. but I will check it out the mac stuff thx

 

[Brad225]

Fattner,
You said you have had the CLSIIzs for 4 years. Do you know how old the panels are? If you haven't checked I would suggest comparing the serial # on them to the thread here for component age.
I would agree with adding subs next to relieve the panels of that duty. I use 2 Depth i subs and it is suprising how much cleaner and clearer the entire mid range is with them.
I am not famliar with your amps and pre so I can't offer an opinon.
Watch for good condition used Depth i subs. I paid under $2000 for the pair I have.
Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

 

[Tosh]

Put in new tubes all around.

 

[Brad225]

I think the only way he'ill get more tubes is if he starts storing left over toilet paper and paper towel tubes in there. :-0

 

[Tosh]

That also happens to summarize my own attitude toward tubes...

 

[Gordon Gray]

fattner,

What do you think you need?

What don't you like about the sound of your current system?

GG

 

[Brad225]

That also happens to summarize my own attitude toward tubes...

Oh my, we have another anti tubiet among us.

 

[bonzo]

You have already done the power and dedicated room stuff. Check if you are getting any brightness or bass boom. When I heard the CLS', I found the bass lacking, so maybe subs will help, but then some don't prefer subs on their panel, so only you can decide.

What music do you listen to? Are there lot of rock slams or classical dynamics? Or mostly vocals. Your tubes should be fine for vocals. Else you might need a solid state amp like Krell. Are you willing to buy and sell used gear, that is a good way to find out your tastes. Or just go around to people on the forum who have a CLS and check if you seem to prefer SS or tubes.

If you want to increase soundstage and 3d and separation, put Shun Mook Diamond resonators under your pre and CD/dac, like Roberto and I do. You can get them on a 30 day trial from Cable Co.

 

[fattner]

You have already done the power and dedicated room stuff. Check if you are getting any brightness or bass boom. When I heard the CLS', I found the bass lacking, so maybe subs will help, but then some don't prefer subs on their panel, so only you can decide.

What music do you listen to? Are there lot of rock slams or classical dynamics? Or mostly vocals. Your tubes should be fine for vocals. Else you might need a solid state amp like Krell. Are you willing to buy and sell used gear, that is a good way to find out your tastes. Or just go around to people on the forum who have a CLS and check if you seem to prefer SS or tubes.

If you want to increase soundstage and 3d and separation, put Shun Mook Diamond resonators under your pre and CD/dac, like Roberto and I do. You can get them on a 30 day trial from Cable Co.

i will try the sub first the. maybe a ss mac stuff ( love blue meters lol ) music i listen to frankie , rat pk llttle R&B Motown and jazz and louis primer too. thx for your imput

 

[Spike]

First, add a sub to get more bottom end, as already suggested.
While your Jolida monos and pre-amp are good equipment, you can take your system to the next level with better amp + preamp. McIntosh, Cary, Pass Labs, Krell, etc... are good candidates. I am partial to tubes so I'd suggest Cary, Audio Research, Manley Labs, to name a few. On the solid state side, McIntosh, Pass, Krell, Sanders, etc... are good.

Good luck,

 

[fubar1764]

When you add subs, make sure you add a pair. Although deep bass is not directional, your right and left channels will still produce different bass. Put the subs in the corner and spend the rest of your time tweaking. You may also want to consider passive bass filters, depending upon your sub. I'm not familiar with ML subs or if there might be synergies with your CLS, which there apparently is per previous posts.

All of new equipment aside, you may want to consider your point of diminishing returns. Put another way, at what point are improvements lost upon you? If you're a concert musician, you probably CAN hear every nuance John Atkinson claims to hear. If you're a combat veteran in the artillery, you may not hear the difference between Bose and well placed electrostats. Are you chasing something that you have to convince yourself is true? This is the stuff of audio cables. Here's my story:
I'm a fan of A/B testing, though it's not necessarily double blind. I decided to upgrade cables. I had 16ga solid core and Transparent MusicWave. Frankly, I couldn't hear the difference after testing. At a certain point, I realized that I was trying really hard to attributing things to the MusicWave that probably weren't there. I was trying way too hard. Then, I decided to make cables from Canare stock. Did spade terminations on them and plugged them in. I COULD hear the difference. It was a difference I liked. For more cable, I paid less for the Canare than the Transparent.
I also did an A/B test on my amps. I started off with an old 80s Denon receiver. Then, I upgraded to an Adcom with Linn Wakonda preamp. A nice difference, but probably not worth it. When I replaced the Adcom with the Aragon, the system came to life! I had bass for once! Amazing! And then I added a Vandersteen sub. Again, a noticeable difference, but not as big a jump as I went from Adcom to Aragon.
What I'm driving at is that this hobby, like everything else in life, is the exploration of what makes you smile and happy. Once you get there, enjoy! Don't chase an auditory phantom, unless chasing that phantom is what makes you smile and happy - and if the chase is your happy, then maximize the happiness of that chase!
For me, my Aerius i's are well matched with the Linn Wakonda and Aragon. I like exploring, so I picked up a pair of B&W 801 Matrix 2. BJC cables with a spare Aragon 4004 Mk II amp. Shopping for a preamp, but leaning towards an Audible Illusion 3A or 3B. Yes, I realize I'm intentionally coloring my new system with tubes. After playing with ss for so long, I'm curious about tubes. So, why the hell not. It's my happy and no one else's.
You've got a rockin' system. Find your happy!

 

[Bernard]

Fubar, great post. You sound like you're in audio bliss. Report back here on your tube exploration (I'm a fan of tubes). The Audible Illusions 3A was very highly rated in its time.

 

[bonzo]

If you're a combat veteran in the artillery, you may not hear the difference between Bose and well placed electrostats.

Is Rich a combat veteran?