I want to take my system to the next level ,help me please !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[R.I.P]

Seems to me you have high quality tube amplification and source. Do not change since you do get good sound quality. A fourth variable to be kept in mind when audio system building, after source, amplifiers and loudspeakers, are the cables. I do not know whether you use high end power cables, interconnects and speaker cables. High end cables might provide you with the wow factor you have been missing.

Just my subjective opinion.

Have fun!

 

[fattner]

Thankyou everyone ,I hope everyone out there has a great turkey day and great listening ,I appreciate everyone input and the subs either the depth 1 or the balance force 210 or 212 ($$$$$) will be on my next to do list ,I do love my amps and I know jolida isn't mcintosh or krell or Cary tubes ,but dollar for dollar they are really nice sounding amps great value and so far I have never had any issues regarding handling my clsiiz. I do have ? And please don't laugh,,, I stumbled on this thread here on ML owners club "clsiiz placement and one off the members state to the person asking the ? That his speakers where placed wrong ,cuz the person had the lg bass panel facing inside vs out side !! Is that true the clsiiz are to be placed with the small edge bass panel on the inside (toe in) and the lg bass section on the outer side ?? If so I have never seen that in the manual nor read bout that ,oh and by the way if that is true my clsiiz where placed wrong for awhile now ,Lol if that is true please explain why ?? Thanks ,,,,Harry frm California

 

[Pneumonic]

Harry do you know any dealers who might let you try out a top SS amp by chance? Though it won't miraculously make your CLSes pound to deafening levels or drop down to 30Hz, a very good, hi current/hi voltage, SS amp could work wonders by tightening the grip on things and opening things up. At least this has been the case every time I worked capable SS amps into my CLS equation throughout the years.

Don't be shy about playing around with proper placement in your room either as a means to improve things. Further, experiment with bass panels facing inside or out along with adjusting the tilt of your speakers. Most users prefer them up off the ground, on stands. Also, if you are willing and able, you might consider bypassing your binding post connections and solder your speakers cables direct to the PCB inside your electronics box.

Try these things out first ...... they can be the cheapest and most effective upgrade ever if you get them right.

 

[fattner]

thx i might just do that

 

[fattner]

anyone out there using a mcintosh mc7270 amp with clsiz , if so plz review the amp ,thx

 

[fattner]

Ok now don't laugh ,since my speakers are on carpet ,I experimented purchased furniture rubber coasters and was able to ever so slightly angled my speakers back ( cuz rising the feet just got losted in the plushed carpart ( if you guys go on audiokarma under the listening spaces ( fattner audio room ) you can see what I'm talking about . With this tweak highs and mids are more detailed and bass is very tight ,now to try the subwoofer suggestion !! Dollar for dollar was the best sub for my clsiiz ( also ease to set up too,thanks to all

 

[twich54]

Ok now don't laugh ,since my speakers are on carpet ,I experimented purchased furniture rubber coasters and was able to ever so slightly angled my speakers back ( cuz rising the feet just got losted in the plushed carpart ( if you guys go on audiokarma under the listening spaces ( fattner audio room ) you can see what I'm talking about . With this tweak highs and mids are more detailed and bass is very tight ,now to try the subwoofer suggestion !! Dollar for dollar was the best sub for my clsiiz ( also ease to set up too,thanks to all

your headed in the right direction ! With that being said, the sub(s) suggestion is a sure thing, plenty of quality out there with seamless integration capability with ones panels.......... DO NOT let anyone tell you differently.

one other consideration would be speaker bracing for your CLS's, this would take your furniture coaster trick to a higher level !

 

[fattner]

What is speaker bracing and can you show me a pic of this ,thx

 

[Gordon Gray]

fattner,

With all due respect, if you have your speakers on the carpet without any vibration attenuation devices, you, IMHO, have not heard what the CLS can do.

Based on this, I wouldn't purchase anything and put current funds into creating a more stable speaker / floor interface.

Many options but certainly less that entertaining swapping out electronics, etc.

You have no idea how good those puppies can sound.

And BTW, rake angle is critical.

Gordon

 

[twich54]

What is speaker bracing and can you show me a pic of this ,thx

learn to use the search function .................

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?6302-Stands-for-the-CLS

Tim started this thread some time ago, good reading given your current desires .................

 

[fattner]

well guys i did it i step up to Mac , i pickup a pr of mac501s mono block tomorrow,,,my clsiiz deserve them and i cant wait to hear them with mac power i will keep my jolida tibe preamp to give that tube sound review to follow soon !! sub next

 

[twich54]

Congrats on the new amps, I suspect once you get your sub(s) integrated you will surely have brought your system to a new level !

Did you check out the thread on speaker bracing ?

 

[fattner]

Congrats on the new amps, I suspect once you get your sub(s) integrated you will surely have brought your system to a new level !

Did you check out the thread on speaker bracing ?

yes i did and i have a call into the company that makes the stands with led inside them for the weight
sound anchors

 

[Duke]

If you go with the soundanchors, you can ask for different heights from stock.

 

[Duke]

I have worked and reworked my room using the clsIIz over the years. I would consider doing the following in this order of “easy to do”. The clsIIz speaker will always be very fast, but it can be unbelievably revealing too. The revealing nature of the speaker is what keeps me working it. I stay away from musical systems. You can get the revealing out of the clsIIz, but you can also get PRAT. Getting rid of “lean” is also achievable, but that takes more work.
I follow an assumption, isolate from vibration anything giving out signal, and spike and anchor down any speaker so that you can launch your sound wave. The sound anchors do that well. Just remember that the strut attaching to the oak frame is very important to do patiently and perfectly.
I treat my room and house speakers like a near field setup (only on a large scale) in an effort to get rid of any frequency problems caused by the room or the house.
I use several subwoofers and pressurize the house, once again like a near field setup at the listening spot.
If you can change the crossover for your speakers to 50 or 60 Hz, you might be able to dial in enough subwoofer to blend into that. The speakers will be more lively and the load on your amps will be easier. I could go on and on, but these are the items I would consider first.
If you are lucky, you might have access to:
Someone who has electronic skills, a metcal soldering gun and silver solder? You can modify the speaker electronics.
Access to an electrician? You might want another circuit just for the speakers. Would you consider using better receptacles, power cords, and speaker wiring? Use the electrician or the fellow with the soldering iron.

 

[fattner]

I have worked and reworked my room using the clsIIz over the years. I would consider doing the following in this order of “easy to do”. The clsIIz speaker will always be very fast, but it can be unbelievably revealing too. The revealing nature of the speaker is what keeps me working it. I stay away from musical systems. You can get the revealing out of the clsIIz, but you can also get PRAT. Getting rid of “lean” is also achievable, but that takes more work.
I follow an assumption, isolate from vibration anything giving out signal, and spike and anchor down any speaker so that you can launch your sound wave. The sound anchors do that well. Just remember that the strut attaching to the oak frame is very important to do patiently and perfectly.
I treat my room and house speakers like a near field setup (only on a large scale) in an effort to get rid of any frequency problems caused by the room or the house.
I use several subwoofers and pressurize the house, once again like a near field setup at the listening spot.
If you can change the crossover for your speakers to 50 or 60 Hz, you might be able to dial in enough subwoofer to blend into that. The speakers will be more lively and the load on your amps will be easier. I could go on and on, but these are the items I would consider first.
If you are lucky, you might have access to:
Someone who has electronic skills, a metcal soldering gun and silver solder? You can modify the speaker electronics.
Access to an electrician? You might want another circuit just for the speakers. Would you consider using better receptacles, power cords, and speaker wiring? Use the electrician or the fellow with the soldering iron.

Wow Thankyou for your knowledge,go ck out my audio room on audiokarma Under the listening room , fattner audio room ,check out my pics and also my electrical work ( dedicated 2 ,,,20 amp circuits with humile electrical hospital grade outlets . Again Thankyou for your input and also let me know what you think bout my room , thx

 

[Duke]

I would first consider speaker placement with the listening chair picked out. Get the image dialed in. Try to find a spot where the piano decay sounds ‘right’. I sit 11 to 12 feet away from my speakers. They are nine feet or so from the back wall. The sidewalls do not matter so much because it is a dipole and the oak frame is wide enough to do its job.
You seem to have a lot of space to work with and that is required for the speaker to succeed. If your new monoblocks allow for a cut off, then consider that. The unmodified speaker can sound strident when asked to play full range at a loud volume. I think you can try different cut offs, but I went with 50 Hz.
The big part is to get your frequencies dialed in within a few dB of each other at the listening chair. Use a sound meter and a Rives CD to check your work at a minimum.
For the lower ranges you have to use a subwoofer setup. This is why I call it 'near field'. It is a sub/sat speaker setup, just like at a computer desktop. Use some DSP. A Velodyne sms or a DD plus subwoofer comes to mind as an easy choice. Once again, you have to try to get the frequencies dialed in.
This is the low hanging fruit. Once you go to mods, then everything changes and songs you used to love are no longer as good as other songs, so be prepared to rediscover your playlist when you start to get far along with the speaker. http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~timc/e/clsiiz/ is a list of what was done just to the speaker electronics. Remember that not only are the electronic parts older, but there have been great advances made in the past few years.
I still recommend more circuits. Hospital grade is nice, but my favorite are Oyaide R1. If you want to start with something less expensive, buy the porter ports on audiogon.

 

[fattner]

i hooked up my mac501 s and you guys where right OMG the detail mid and highs ,the bass so deep and the voices , so real to life , a completely differnt system , now for a sub !! thx to all for ur imput !!!

 

[Duke]

is the upgrade in sound enough for you? It is great when you stop because you are satisfied.

 

[TomDac]

i hooked up my mac501 s and you guys where right OMG the detail mid and highs ,the bass so deep and the voices , so real to life , a completely differnt system , now for a sub !! thx to all for ur imput !!!

Awesome! Glad to hear this!