Hi to all, and (yes, yet another) question on suitable AVRs

[SFMLowner]

Hi, everyone. I tried to post this message over the weekend, but I don't see it up. If I missed it, apologies for the repeat.
I've been an ML owner for a little over a decade. I was a three decade owner of Dahlquist DQ-10s, but when I decided to switch to a home theater set up and had to switch to the long axis of my narrow living room, the DQ-10s were too wide to use as the fronts. I bought a pair of Aeon i's to use as the fronts and later a Fresco to be the center (the surrounds are small Boses). The system was driven by a 150watt x7 B&K AVR507. (Probably more power than I need, since it's a modest size room and I live in an apartment and don't play the system very loudly, but I've always thought reserves were good (I drove the DQ-10s with a 200wx2 Adcom 555 Mk2). Sadly, the B&K now has its standby light on but the main display doesn't light, the unit doesn't put out sound, and replacing the only fuse I see didn't solve the problem. If anyone knows a fix for the B&K, that would be great, but in the absence of that, I'm looking for a replacement AVR. The ML website states MLs are compatible with most 8 ohm amplifiers, but also states it's important to that the amp be stable going into 4 and 2 ohms. I was thinking buying a Marantz AVR, and had the following email exchange with them:
TO:
My B&K AVR 507 needs to be replaced. My front speakers are Martin Logan Aeon i's, which ML states have a nominal impedance of 4 ohms, but can drop to a minimum of 1.1. ML states that it "is important that the amplifier be stable operating into varying impedance loads." The amp is also supposed to be able to deliver 100-200 wpc for these speakers. The center speaker is an ML Fresco (which is 5 ohm nominal but compatible with 8 ohm amplifiers) and the surrounds are small Bose speakers. I am considering buying an SR7011 on clearance (or possibly a used 7009 or 7010). Please advise if these receivers can drive the Martin Logans without damage.
FROM MARANTZ:
The 7 Series AVRs (7009, 7010, 7011) can handle an impedance down to 4 ohms, but once the impedance starts pushing lower than 4 you run the risk of damage to the amp section. All of our AVRs have protection circuitry that kicks in when the amp detects a 2 ohm load or lower. While the amps are stable in the 4-16 ohm range, I can't guarantee you won't damage the unit if the impedance drops to 2 ohms or lower.
I would advise looking for an amp / receiver that can handle a nominal impedance below 4 ohms.
Thanks,
Marantz NA
Perhaps I made too much about the MLs being able to drop below 2 ohms, and the B&K did last a decade or so. Any suggestions for an AVR suitable for use with the Aeons? Would a Pioneer Elite D3 receiver be better than an A or AB type?
Regards,
Larry
San Francisco, CA

 

[twich54]

First off ..... Welcome aboard !

As for the AVR question vs the impedance drop, understand that the drop occurs at the upper limit of the audible range(well beyond where these old ears can hear). Regardless the majority here, myself included are not fans of AVR's running electrostatic speakers.

IMO, if you going to utilize an AVR do so only as a 'pre' and marry it up with a suitable multichannel amp. You don't have to spend a fortune (but you can), Emotiva and Monoprice make very affordable units.

 

[SFMLowner]

Dave,

Thanks very much, both for the welcome and for the substantive reply. I wish I had thought to see if there was an ML owners' forum years ago.

Turning to the question of separates vs receivers, I had separates for years (a PS Audio IVH preamp and the Adcom 555 Mk2 driving the Dahlquists) before I got my first HDTV in 2005 and wanted surround sound capability to go with it. I was hoping a receiver would work in part because I'd like to get something in the $1500 or less range (I just don't sit and listen to music as critically anymore, but love the transparency of the Aeon's when I do) and thought I had the answer when I found I could get last year's Marantz SR7011 new for a little under $1400 new, until I got the somewhat discouraging reply from Marantz. The Monoprice 7 channel amp looks great, but on Monoprice's website, it's $1500 by itself and I'd then also have the cost of a good preamp with at least most of the current decoding features. I could probably find a good used 7 channel amp on craigslist or ebay, so if you have some thoughts on reasonable preamps, that might still be a possibility.

Best,
Larry

 

[twich54]

Larry,

do you not have a suitable AVR that could be used (pre-outs) in front of a multi-channel amp ?

That's the least expensive route I see

 

[SFMLowner]

Nope, no AVR, now that the B&K has decided not to function. But, that is definitely a thought. As I mentioned, I'd want to look for one with at least most of the current decoding capabilities. I gather from your prior email that either Emotivas or Monoprice will work well as amps with ML speakers.
Larry

 

[twich54]

I gather from your prior email that either Emotivas or Monoprice will work well as amps with ML speakers.
Larry

I mentioned them as a 'budget' reference and I see no reason why they wouldn't. If your funds allow the sky's the limit !

 

[JonFo]

Hum, with a budget target of $1,500, that is excluding most suitable (new) gear. I was about to recommend the Arcam 850, as it has robust class G amps that will handle the ESL impedance swings, and also features Dirac room correction, but it is north of $4K

If willing to look at a slightly older vintage, the Arcam AVR600 is available new (refurbished) at $2K, and used at your price-point or below.

 

[GW1800]

Hi, everyone. I tried to post this message over the weekend, but I don't see it up. If I missed it, apologies for the repeat.
I've been an ML owner for a little over a decade. I was a three decade owner of Dahlquist DQ-10s, but when I decided to switch to a home theater set up and had to switch to the long axis of my narrow living room, the DQ-10s were too wide to use as the fronts. I bought a pair of Aeon i's to use as the fronts and later a Fresco to be the center (the surrounds are small Boses). The system was driven by a 150watt x7 B&K AVR507. (Probably more power than I need, since it's a modest size room and I live in an apartment and don't play the system very loudly, but I've always thought reserves were good (I drove the DQ-10s with a 200wx2 Adcom 555 Mk2). Sadly, the B&K now has its standby light on but the main display doesn't light, the unit doesn't put out sound, and replacing the only fuse I see didn't solve the problem. If anyone knows a fix for the B&K, that would be great, but in the absence of that, I'm looking for a replacement AVR. The ML website states MLs are compatible with most 8 ohm amplifiers, but also states it's important to that the amp be stable going into 4 and 2 ohms. I was thinking buying a Marantz AVR, and had the following email exchange with them:
TO:
My B&K AVR 507 needs to be replaced. My front speakers are Martin Logan Aeon i's, which ML states have a nominal impedance of 4 ohms, but can drop to a minimum of 1.1. ML states that it "is important that the amplifier be stable operating into varying impedance loads." The amp is also supposed to be able to deliver 100-200 wpc for these speakers. The center speaker is an ML Fresco (which is 5 ohm nominal but compatible with 8 ohm amplifiers) and the surrounds are small Bose speakers. I am considering buying an SR7011 on clearance (or possibly a used 7009 or 7010). Please advise if these receivers can drive the Martin Logans without damage.
FROM MARANTZ:
The 7 Series AVRs (7009, 7010, 7011) can handle an impedance down to 4 ohms, but once the impedance starts pushing lower than 4 you run the risk of damage to the amp section. All of our AVRs have protection circuitry that kicks in when the amp detects a 2 ohm load or lower. While the amps are stable in the 4-16 ohm range, I can't guarantee you won't damage the unit if the impedance drops to 2 ohms or lower.
I would advise looking for an amp / receiver that can handle a nominal impedance below 4 ohms.
Thanks,
Marantz NA
Perhaps I made too much about the MLs being able to drop below 2 ohms, and the B&K did last a decade or so. Any suggestions for an AVR suitable for use with the Aeons? Would a Pioneer Elite D3 receiver be better than an A or AB type?
Regards,
Larry
San Francisco, CA

I don't have anything to add to this thread as others seem to be giving you great advice. However I do want to comment on your DQ10's. I had a pair in the day and look back fondly at that experience. At the time I also had two subs I don't remember if DQ had subs at the time or if it was another brand but it was a great experience. I eventually moved on to Infinity Reference Standard 4.5's. Then after a couple years got married, moved in to a small apartment and sold everything and went mostly dark for about 30 years. But have come back strong in the last 5 years:ROFL:

 

[SFMLowner]

GW1800,
I actually still have the Dahlquists. I've always loved them and found it hard to bring myself to try to sell them (okay, I'm also a packrat). I did try to listen to them the other day since the surround system isn't working and heard a buzz from one speaker, suggesting it's finally time to put fresh cones on the woofers.

Jonathan, thanks for the suggestion of the Arcams. You're right that 4K is way more than I want to devote to my system at this point, but the recommendation of the Arcam AVR at least suggests that some AVRs would be suitable. Based on Dave's suggestions, I'm looking for something to use as a preamp and a multichannel amp. I was thinking about Emotiva or Outlaw for the latter. I emailed Outlaw yesterday and got a reply that its amps were stable "even when the impedance varies, and drops as low as 2 ohms - so long as the nominal impedance is 4. The amplifiers may run warmer than usual and so you will want at least 3-6" of clearance for ventilation."

Best,
Larry