Emotiva October Sale

[ralflar]

This could be interesting for anyone looking for cheap high quality components e.g. to start a (second?) system or to replace an HT receiver.

A sale is on at Emotiva. Recently I bought four of their components, and have been very satisfied with one and deeply impressed by three.

For instance he RPA-1; it is a Class H (Carver?) dual mono amplifier which will drive very low impedances. It sounds very similar to my CIA Class D mono blocks. The D-200s cost almost 4 times as much as the RPA-1. I have not swapped amps repetitively in A/B fashion yet but think I could live with the RPA-1 and not miss anything.

Which means that either the D-200s are crap or the RPA-1 is superb. And I do not believe that the former is true.

 

[ralflar]

The RSP-1 pre-amp is nice but I prefer my passive line stage. Since I do not have any experience with decent active pre-amps the RSP might actually be quite good for all I know - perhaps I just like passives better.

The combo price for the RSP-1/RPA-1 is $1300 including shipping. In terms of sound quality the combination of a $300 CIAudio VPC-3 and a RPA-1 will be superior, IMO, and a few hundreds cheaper, too, but lack the remote and only have two source inputs.

Even the RSP-1/RPA-1 combo will be so much better than a receiver. BTW, the RSP-1 does not have an HT bypass but there is a known 1:1 (one-to-one) position on the Alps volume potentiometer. FWIW, the RSP-1 has optional built-in 2.1 bass management.

 

[ralflar]

A DMC-1/LPA-1 combo replaced my Yamaha 1600 for HT. I did not expect any significant audible improvements because I'm using a Polk SurroundBar. The PSB uses psycho-acoustic time delays to generate the illusion of a 180 degree sound field. The effect never really worked with the Yammy. It does with the DMC-1. Also, dialogs are easier to follow, even at lower volumes. Where the Yammy sounds muffled the combo shines. And now there even is a semblance of sound staging. I can't wait to get discrete speakers for multi-channel SACD & DVD-A music.

The DMC-1 is essentially a Sunfire Theater Grand IV. The Class A/B LPA-1 is simply great for the price. The Yammy 1600 runs very hot even at low volumes, the LPA-1 simply gets warm. If I had to order again I'd get the Class H MPS-2, but that is simply because the RPA-1 which uses the same design performs so well.

 

[mcmd]

Hmm, interesting...

Ralflar,

Thanks for starting this thread.

Emotiva has a *very* interesting business model. While we are all used to the internet "flattening out" distribution systems, we are not really used to seeing it in the audiophile "space". Their "direct to user" disintermediation business model should give them some interesting "scale" potential at the expense of brick and mortar dealer networks.

Let's see:

• 30 days *free* in-home trial
• 40% upgrade discount for current owners

While we are used to seeing free in-home trials from many manufacturers, the 40% discount plan is something I have not seen before. Apparently, it is *not* a trade-in program, you get to keep your current equipment. They simply deduct 40% from the purchase price of the new item if you are a current user. With processor technology moving at such lightning speed, this is a cost-effective way of "keeping up".

I am considering their MMC-1 processor at the current price of $699. If it indeed sounds as good as it looks.... :think:

I suspect that this price was lowered (from $1199 originally) in anticipation of the release of the updated version of this processor, which is rumored to offer HDMI 1.3, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD, automatic room calibration (Audyssey?) among other features. The only negative I see is no balanced signal operation but for $699, can you really complain? Perhaps this processor (or its successor) will come to be seen as a "working-man's" Denon AVP-A1!

And no, despite the overt "rah-rah" tone of this post, I have no affiliation with Emotiva, nor any financial stake in the company.

 

[ralflar]

mcmd,

One word of clarification: only processors are eligible for the 40% uptrade program.

The program does not include stereo pre-amplifiers nor power amplifiers. The rationale behind this is that which you stated: pre-pro technology develops fast. You are probably fully aware of this program limitation - I thought I'd point it out for the other readers' benefit.

And yes, you get to keep your "old" pre-pro.

As far as I recall the MMC-1 is a DMC-1 in new clothes and the balanced IO removed. The Sunfire Theatre Grand IV is essentially the same as a DMC-1. IMO, the MMC-1 one is still an excellent buy for someone who is more into SACD and DVD-a multi-channel music than the latest codecs.

And one word of warning :

Emotiva components do not break the bank, but they do break backs. IOW they are heavy, a testament to their build quality. The weight is not just in the transformers, heatsinks, and thick front bezel. Actually the front plate is on 1/4" thick. A lot of the weight comes from the case itself. It is specified to support top loads of 200 pounds. Nothing resonates in these cases.

 

[mcmd]

One word of clarification: only processors are eligible for the 40% uptrade program.

The program does not include stereo pre-amplifiers nor power amplifiers. The rationale behind this is that which you stated: pre-pro technology develops fast. You are probably fully aware of this program limitation - I thought I'd point it out for the other readers' benefit.

Thanks, missed that at first glance, but it makes an awful lot of sense and almost "guarantees" a continuing revenue stream from upgrading users. It's marketing brilliance.

As far as I recall the MMC-1 is a DMC-1 in new clothes and the balanced IO removed. The Sunfire Theatre Grand IV is essentially the same as a DMC-1. IMO, the MMC-1 one is still an excellent buy for someone who is more into SACD and DVD-a multi-channel music than the latest codecs.

Agreed. The MMC-1 cannot pass audio via HDMI but seems to be a very capable processor (expecially given it's price point!). That capability has to wait for the UMC-1 (which was previously "codenamed" the LMC-2). Looking over the forums at Emotiva Lounge the UMC-1 is expected be available in June and sell for $699. For those into vinyl, the phono stage is gone in the UMC-1, but there's still plenty to love: 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs, 1 HDMI out, "the latest codecs", iPod support and USB are "confirmed".

The "true" upgrade to the MMC-1 will be the XMC-1 (expected price: $999) but I can't find any info regarding an expected release date for this piece. Allegedly, it will have 6 HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs, balanced input/outputs, and "upgraded" audio/video paths. I hope they keep the phono stage in the XMC-1, but I doubt they will. That's why I'll never be able to give up my Threshold fet nine which I use solely as a phono stage!

ralflar, you probably know this, but apparently there's no current plan for a DMC-2. I think the XMC-1 will be, for all intents and purposes, the replacement for the DMC-1.

So let's see, the MMC-1 today: $699. and the XMC-1 next year: $600. By God, perhaps A/V processors will be sold on an annual subscription basis if this continues! :haha1: Just *think* of the marketing pitch to audiophiles: "For only $50/month you can upgrade your processor every year..." :think:

 

[Dreamer]

So I see form their website that Emotiva is physically located in Tennesee. But where are these components made? Are they actually manufacturing these units here in the US of A, in the hills of TN, or are they outsourced in China and then shipped from a warehouse in TN?

I've made a vow to not buy ANY gear made in China if I can avoid it, which is making it VERY difficult to buy audio gear these days. Even Sunfire is now outsourcing all their manufacturing to China. Bob Carver must be spitting nails over that...

--Richard

 

[mcmd]

Dreamer,

I empathize with your position. As you stated, it is fast becoming very difficult to buy audio equipment today that wasn't made in China (or *anything* else, for that matter). It is reasonable to deduce that Emotiva's products are made in China since the company states on its website that customs paperwork for all international sales will show the country of origin to be China and not the US.

It shouldn't come as a surprise. As you also noted, Sunfire pieces are being outsourced to China. As the Emotiva DMC-1 processor was based upon the venerable Sunfire TG IV, it's not a stretch to think that both companies are using the same OEM(s).

Let's not be completely unfair to Emotiva though. Even ML outsources certain speaker lines and certain parts to keep pricing "friendly" for its customers.

 

[ralflar]

...
ralflar, you probably know this, but apparently there's no current plan for a DMC-2. I think the XMC-1 will be, for all intents and purposes, the replacement for the DMC-1.

Emotiva have a fuzzy plan for a new "Pro" series above the X series. A processor will be part of that Pro series. It may not be called DMC-2. But when that successor to the DMC-1 is released, DMC-1 owners will be eligible for the 40% discount (source).

So let's see, the MMC-1 today: $699. and the XMC-1 next year: $600. By God, perhaps A/V processors will be sold on an annual subscription basis if this continues! :haha1: Just *think* of the marketing pitch to audiophiles: "For only $50/month you can upgrade your processor every year..." :think:

Interesting idea.

 

[ralflar]

...
It shouldn't come as a surprise. As you also noted, Sunfire pieces are being outsourced to China. As the Emotiva DMC-1 processor was based upon the venerable Sunfire TG IV, it's not a stretch to think that both companies are using the same OEM(s). ...

Emotiva build all all their equipment in China.

The rub is, Emotiva is the OEM. They own the factories. They are the contractor who builds for other companies.

It is most likely the Sunfire TG IV which is based on the DMC-1, not the other way around.

Sources:

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=newbie&thread=1199823265&page=1

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.co...n=display&thread=1192051012&page=2#1195439983

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=preamps&thread=1202253066&page=1 (see post #5)

I wonder if it is true that the Symphonic Reference pre-amp is based on the Emo RSP-1, see post #3. I downloaded the manual for the former: "rpa1man" is right about the remote for sure. Also the feature list (e.g. 2nd pair of low-cut filtered pre-outs, a rather unique RSP-1 feature) and the back plane are stunningly similar...

 

[mcmd]

Emotiva build all all their equipment in China.

The rub is, Emotiva is the OEM. They own the factories. They are the contractor who builds for other companies.

It is most likely the Sunfire TG IV which is based on the DMC-1, not the other way around.

That's astonishing.

Sources:

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=newbie&thread=1199823265&page=1

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.co...n=display&thread=1192051012&page=2#1195439983

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=preamps&thread=1202253066&page=1 (see post #5)

I wonder if it is true that the Symphonic Reference pre-amp is based on the Emo RSP-1, see post #3. I downloaded the manual for the former: "rpa1man" is right about the remote for sure. Also the feature list (e.g. 2nd pair of low-cut filtered pre-outs, a rather unique RSP-1 feature) and the back plane are stunningly similar...

Thanks for the links. I get it now. Their design and manufacturing for other companies is done under non-disclosure (but not non-compete) agreements. That's funny! I'm even more impressed with their business model now. I suspect their "partners" didn't figure that they would have to compete against Emotiva when contracting them as their OEM! :duh:

Gotta wonder how this was missed by "legal" --- from a business risk management perspective, that's some bad "due-diligence". The only thing I can think of is that the more established manufacturers didn't think Emotiva's business model was viable, or didn't perceive it as a threat. :banghead:

 

[timm]

Interesting tidbit on these amps...the THD is .007 ... I know the sunfire amps are at .5 ... which I always thought high... but I am not sure what the rating is based on 1 watt/ 500 watts.... does anyone know if these are compareable figures or just different ways of measuring the THD?

 

[timm]

Also - if anyone has these amps... Could someone please give a comment on the SOUND of it compared to other products that you have owned? thx.

 

[Nik]

I am thinking about trying the 2-channel vs my Sunfire Symphonic Reference when it comes out in April. If I get it I will let you know!
Nik

 

[Dreamer]

Yes the backplane of the Emotiva pre/pro's DO seem very similar to Sunfire backplanes, and even the front controls are arrayed in a similar manner, superficial cosmetics aside...

The main differences to me seem to be, however, why I would lean towaard Sunfire, because they are two things that I just can't live without: 1. Balanced outputs, and 2. Sonic Holography...

--Richard

 

[mcmd]

Also - if anyone has these amps... Could someone please give a comment on the SOUND of it compared to other products that you have owned? thx.

Timm, If I'm not mistaken, I think ralflar owns not one, but two Emotiva amps... I'm sure he'll chime in when he has a chance.

 

[Nik]

Yes the backplane of the Emotiva pre/pro's DO seem very similar to Sunfire backplanes, and even the front controls are arrayed in a similar manner, superficial cosmetics aside...

The main differences to me seem to be, however, why I would lean towaard Sunfire, because they are two things that I just can't live without: 1. Balanced outputs, and 2. Sonic Holography...

--Richard

Duuhhhh- helps to read va scanning.

 

[timm]

I am thinking about trying the 2-channel vs my Sunfire Symphonic Reference when it comes out in April. If I get it I will let you know!
Nik

Well - if you do - let us know. That would be a great comparison... I have thought of getting a better 2 channel - and possibly going with something like this for my home theater... I have the sunfire cinema grand signature which I use for 2 channel & home theater....

 

[ralflar]

Also - if anyone has these amps... Could someone please give a comment on the SOUND of it compared to other products that you have owned? thx.

In a word, the LPA-1 and RPA-1 sound neutral, fast, and dynamic. They have clarity and detail. The RPA-1 punches well in the low octaves. (Can't comment on the LPA-1 in this respect - I use it in movie mode i.e. the sub does the low bass work.) It plays well above its perceived value.

The RPA-1, driving Vantages, reminds my of my CIA monoblocks. It has a similar sound signature. Whenever I inserted the RPA-1 into the system I thought, surprise, that's fine, I don't think I miss the D-200s. A few weeks later when I put the D-200s back in I thought, yes they do do everything a little better after all. They have more of the elusive PRAT, and all the other stuff which makes you tap your toes, twitch rythmically in your recliner, pull weird faces, do a little jig. A few weeks later I went back to the RPA-1, and I was back to, surprise, that's just fine, toe-tapping, twitching and all.

In other words, I have not conducted an A/B test yet, like I did with the RSP-1 pre-amp vs my passive line stage. I agree that's very unscientific. FWIW, I believe that I enjoy the D-200s more after all. But isn't the fact that I did not feel compelled to do an A/B quite telling in itself. The RPA-1 certainly is not bad at all, independent of price.

Now factor in the superb build quality, the looks, features. Then look at the price. Gasp. $450 for an LPA-1? $700 for an XPA-2 or XPA-5. The RPA-2 price will be in this ball park also. (I got my RPA-1 on a sale for under $550 shipped - well I bought the other stuff, too. Under the skin the RPA-2 will be its twin.)

If it is your habit to listen at loud volumes, make sure you have dedicated circuits feeding each amp. I hear these amps want Amperes when driven.

 

[ralflar]

Yes the backplane of the Emotiva pre/pro's DO seem very similar to Sunfire backplanes, and even the front controls are arrayed in a similar manner, superficial cosmetics aside...

The main differences to me seem to be, however, why I would lean towaard Sunfire, because they are two things that I just can't live without: 1. Balanced outputs, and 2. Sonic Holography...

--Richard

Richard,

You want to look at those backplane pictures again.

(1) It is the Sunfire which lacks the XLR terminals!
(2) "Sonic Holography". Beg your pardon?