Do I really need to upgrade my centre channel with a ESL C18

[Davioj]

Right now I have my esl c mounted below sounds very good but I have to rearrange my components to put the c18 there which might be easier than trying it up above and poking holes in the wall just to try it

 

[Kernel]

Yes! I looked at Muraudio back in 2019 with my recollection being that they were integrating Transmission Line speakers with Electrostatics. But this may not be correct. My first 'performance speakers' were IMF Professional Monitors, but after I heard electrostatics (Quads) for the first time I have never deviated from that concept with Martin Logan being prettier (says my wife) and with bass extension (says me).

Edit:
For completness, after investigating further, I have found that it was Saunders Sound Systems that integrated transmission line woofer designs with electrosatic panels.

 

[Davioj]

Looking into the focus probably tonight have a line on a used one for $3200 Canadian, just trying to sell my ESL C now then I will make the jump just got to go hear it, is there anything that could go wrong with one or something I should be looking at being that it is a newer model. Think they came out in 2017.

Dave

 

[Robert D]

Looking into the focus probably tonight have a line on a used one for $3200 Canadian, just trying to sell my ESL C now then I will make the jump just got to go hear it, is there anything that could go wrong with one or something I should be looking at being that it is a newer model. Think they came out in 2017.

Dave

I'm not aware of any problems. I've had mine since around 2020 and no problems. The ES panel is recessed in the cabinet too, so that might help keep some dust and dirt out?

 

[Nuri58]

I'm not aware of any problems. I've had mine since around 2020 and no problems. The ES panel is recessed in the cabinet too, so that might help keep some dust and dirt out?

At least from the backside one would think. But since it's curved I'd think the charged size is the other side and then subject to dust. But maybe less change of air thereby less sensitive?

 

[ttocs]

Looking into the focus probably tonight have a line on a used one for $3200 Canadian, just trying to sell my ESL C now then I will make the jump just got to go hear it, is there anything that could go wrong with one or something I should be looking at being that it is a newer model. Think they came out in 2017.

Dave

As pointed out above, the back is sealed so no dust gets in from behind.

Full disclosure, mine had a problem with the high voltage power supply, which was replaced under warranty - and very quickly!! I didn't send the speaker in, but instead told ML Service that I was capable of such replacement because I've got experience with electronics. So they walked me through what to check and quickly determined that the HV board was at fault and sent a new one which I received a couple days after I submitted the Support Ticket.

Since that repair I've removed the front screen of the speaker to allow for easy cleaning of the stat panel, which didn't really need it, but it makes me happy to be able to do so. That screen apparently does a pretty good job of limiting the amount of dust that gets through to the stat panel.

With all that said, it's a wonderful speaker and worth the money!

 

[Robert D]

At least from the backside one would think. But since it's curved I'd think the charged size is the other side and then subject to dust. But maybe less change of air thereby less sensitive?

I think air supply is plenty regardless. I'm just hoping that since it's set back/recessed that dust might have a harder time finding its way in. Probably minimal effect.
Yes, the back is sealed completely, so thats perhaps half of the dust cut off.

 

[Robert D]

As pointed out above, the back is sealed so no dust gets in from behind.

Full disclosure, mine had a problem with the high voltage power supply, which was replaced under warranty - and very quickly!! I didn't send the speaker in, but instead told ML Service that I was capable of such replacement because I've got experience with electronics. So they walked me through what to check and quickly determined that the HV board was at fault and sent a new one which I received a couple days after I submitted the Support Ticket.

Since that repair I've removed the front screen of the speaker to allow for easy cleaning of the stat panel, which didn't really need it, but it makes me happy to be able to do so. That screen apparently does a pretty good job of limiting the amount of dust that gets through to the stat panel.

With all that said, it's a wonderful speaker and worth the money!

How long did you own the speaker before the HV board went out?

 

[Nuri58]

I think air supply is plenty regardless. I'm just hoping that since it's set back/recessed that dust might have a harder time finding its way in. Probably minimal effect.
Yes, the back is sealed completely, so thats perhaps half of the dust cut off.

The dust is attraked from the charged side. ML for that reason says it suffides to vacuum the front side of the panels, but I wouldn't know how on the Focus, as it's placed well behind the front plate (at least more than my vacuum is capable off I'd assume)

 

[ttocs]

How long did you own the speaker before the HV board went out?

About 20 months.

 

[Robert D]

About 20 months.

I'm well past that point myself. Hopefully you just got a bad part.

 

[ttocs]

I'm well past that point myself. Hopefully you just got a bad part.

That's what I think.

 

[Davioj]

Well I just talked to the fellow and am going out on Sat. to hear It as long as it plays well I really can't see anything wrong been buying ML used stuff for a while haven't had any problems yet and even if I do get a problem I am getting a real good price on it repairs are cheaper than a new one. Bought some ReQuest speakers about a year ago and because they were 27 years old repaneled them they sound fantastic but they were still real good sounding before the new panels may be should have waited but I figure everything is going up might as well do it now, I will also be able to sell my ESL C so that will be good.

Dave

 

[Nuri58]

[QUOTE="ttocs, post: 211893,
Since that repair I've removed the front screen of the speaker to allow for easy cleaning of the stat panel, which didn't really need it, but it makes me happy to be able to do so. That screen apparently does a pretty good job of limiting the amount of dust that gets through to the stat
[/QUOTE]
So seems my suspicion that the air between the front and the panel reduses the dust. Now i would be interesting to know how exactly to remove the front. Maybe you'll be kind enough to share the secret.

 

[Davioj]

Well I took the leap and bought the Focus C18 and wow I am impressed really nice bass, got to run Anthem ARC and thinking of ordering the PBK for my paradigm DSP3200.

Dave

 

[Nuri58]

Congrats. Happy listning indeed.

 

[ejspain]

Congratulations. I've had mine roughly 4 months (replaced my Cinema i). Amazing speaker. Took some time before completely opening up. Have to feed it good power. For movie watching I run my Impression 11As at 80hz but the C18 at 60hz because I like the fullness it adds to the dialog.

Well I took the leap and bought the Focus C18 and wow I am impressed really nice bass, got to run Anthem ARC and thinking of ordering the PBK for my paradigm DSP3200.

Dave

 

[Fidji99]

Congratulations. I've had mine roughly 4 months (replaced my Cinema i). Amazing speaker. Took some time before completely opening up. Have to feed it good power. For movie watching I run my Impression 11As at 80hz but the C18 at 60hz because I like the fullness it adds to the dialog.

I have started also with 60Hz, when I upgraded to Focus - as you said, improvement vs [in my case XT50] was huge and I have enjoyed overall quality improvement.

But I have later switched [and still keep] 80Hz now [also for 15A's] as it gives me more homogenous overall screen side experience.
Audyssey is notoriously bad with phasing of crossovers [and also determining crossover frequencies] and in most cases it gets only one of L-R or C right, and sometimes it gets all 3 wrong, especially if you burden it with different crossover frequencies. So this dip in crossover frequency, caused by wrong phasing is something, that might be robbing you of "fullness".

Control with REW measurements is a good place to start to tweak, Properly manually tweaked Audyssey can ve good as anything else on the market

Another reason, why I stopped trying to get as low as possible with crossover is the fact that, even with specs of 50Hz FR, these are still 2 6.5in woofers in sealed enclosure and trying to play them down to 60Hz is too much strain. I get more effortless and coherent response with 80Hz. But this is just me and my room [listening distance approx. 2.8m]

 

[Robert D]

I have started also with 60Hz, when I upgraded to Focus - as you said, improvement vs [in my case XT50] was huge and I have enjoyed overall quality improvement.

But I have later switched [and still keep] 80Hz now [also for 15A's] as it gives me more homogenous overall screen side experience.
Audyssey is notoriously bad with phasing of crossovers [and also determining crossover frequencies] and in most cases it gets only one of L-R or C right, and sometimes it gets all 3 wrong, especially if you burden it with different crossover frequencies. So this dip in crossover frequency, caused by wrong phasing is something, that might be robbing you of "fullness".

Control with REW measurements is a good place to start to tweak, Properly manually tweaked Audyssey can ve good as anything else on the market

Another reason, why I stopped trying to get as low as possible with crossover is the fact that, even with specs of 50Hz FR, these are still 2 6.5in woofers in sealed enclosure and trying to play them down to 60Hz is too much strain. I get more effortless and coherent response with 80Hz. But this is just me and my room [listening distance approx. 2.8m]

Yes, I too believe this. I've got my front 3 set at 80 HZ, and I have big Prodigy speakers. 80 HZ sounds by far the best. Even the two Prodigy 10 inch woofers can't keep up with what a good subwoofer can. The BF 210 and my PSA 21 inch woofer are best reproducing frequencies at 60 HZ.

 

[ejspain]

I have started also with 60Hz, when I upgraded to Focus - as you said, improvement vs [in my case XT50] was huge and I have enjoyed overall quality improvement.

But I have later switched [and still keep] 80Hz now [also for 15A's] as it gives me more homogenous overall screen side experience.
Audyssey is notoriously bad with phasing of crossovers [and also determining crossover frequencies] and in most cases it gets only one of L-R or C right, and sometimes it gets all 3 wrong, especially if you burden it with different crossover frequencies. So this dip in crossover frequency, caused by wrong phasing is something, that might be robbing you of "fullness".

Control with REW measurements is a good place to start to tweak, Properly manually tweaked Audyssey can ve good as anything else on the market

Another reason, why I stopped trying to get as low as possible with crossover is the fact that, even with specs of 50Hz FR, these are still 2 6.5in woofers in sealed enclosure and trying to play them down to 60Hz is too much strain. I get more effortless and coherent response with 80Hz. But this is just me and my room [listening distance approx. 2.8m]

Agreed. Made a few adjustments in ARC Genesis (crossover, EQ, levels and room gain). I now have the LCR at 80hz and the dialog blending is really good now. I am also amazed at the difference in timbre since adding the IC8's. I was of the mindset, it didn't matter much if you went "lower end" with your Atmos. I thought the Polk Audio RC8's sounded pretty good until I put in the ML IC8's and what a difference. I've heard of how important it is to timbre match your speakers but didn't really underestimated the impact. Now all of my speakers are Martin Logan and it has made a huge difference; especially when watching movies.