CLS strengths and weaknesses

[C.A.P]

I have the CLSZ2s...I am not a fan of Stereophile but their original review years ago on the CLS was pretty telling of some of their sonic issues IMHO. Their highs can be "phasey" making them just a tiny less precise.Its room Dependant! and source dependent. I think the New panel technology allowed them to make a smaller more efficiant design. It has its faults too. Why do you think the STATEMENT needed mid woofers to help it out. Smaller panels will not produce bass. The CLS was and is still a combination of maximum and minimum design that works. ! ML solved this with narrower panels in the Statement E2 and you can see the trickle down in the CLX. The CLX is a different beast than the Statement that used Mid woofers. The CLX has Very large open panels that use tripple stator design that has dual mylar bass sections effectively doubling the output of that area. If you have the right room they are amazing but I would not own them without a subwoofer.I 100% agree there. However I could listen to them with out one and still get great enjoyment ! Once you get it in and sorted out you will not want to do without it. I have heard the Summit and mourn its passing. The newer panels have the last% of resolution( yes ...better than the CLS)Resolution , I think not ! Detail and precision maybe, but at the sacrifice of staging and depth of image ! and if I had one wish for my CLSZ2s...that for the replacement panels they use the newest/best technology they have available (but leave the dark spars in this design)....even if they were to cost more $ or require some crossover/electronic adjustments.

New panels are not made with clear spars and micro perf technology. Its not posible with the older X-overs and the space required in between the stators.

 

[roberto]

Wow Roberto, couldn't have said it better myself! Do you play any instruments? I play the cello and the piano. I have played in an orchestra when I was quite a bit younger and so have heard how instruments sound in real life. I have to agree with you on the precision of sound the CLS's are capable of with respect to this point.

What is your system composed of? What are your favorite classical recordings you like to listen to on your stereo?

Hola donaudio...now I have a very simple system. I have the CLSIIz as main, the Motif as center and two Sonus Faber Electa for rears. The control is a Sherwood New Castle R-965 and the amps for front, Audio Research VT-100MKII and a Bryston 2B bridged for center. Also have a harmonic recovery system SCI and for cd player I have a Proceed transport and a Proceed DAC, with the Dragon from Camelot to jitter control. The turntable now is a LP-12 from Linn Sondek with Magnepan Unitrack tonearm, and Talisman S sapphire cartridge from Sumiko. The Acurus cartridge preamp for moving coil cartridges, and DHlabs cables...for front I use Harmonic Tech cables. The dvd is a toshiba modified, the power supply and the digital clock...and I do like what I get. Of course there are out here better electronics with superb sound. Now I just started a new way of listening, now I concentrate more into what I like, and not of what I do not like...so I am enjoying very much my system. I used to play classical guitar. I studied for over 14 years with the profesor Francisco Bracamonte, direct pupil of Agustin Barrios, one of the best composers and players of classical guitar. I have a workshop where I service most all hi-end brands here in Costa Rica like Levinson, Conrad Johnson, VTL, Audio Research, Aragon, etc...in the 80s broke my back and I can not play anymore...so I became a listener than a musician. I know that there are a lot of super good sounding systems, but I do like what I do listen in mine too. I am very demanding, with respect of the right size of the instruments, and the air between them. Also, I like the 3 dimensional sound. At the stage, I like to have the drummer with the cymbals and I also like the percussion instruments with the player...not in front of me the ones that have a lot of high frequency energy, another reason why I like tubes versus SS. Do not get me wrong here...there are a lot of SS that delivers very good sound stage too, but tubes are my liking...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Aaron S]

However I could listen to them with out one (one=the right room) and still get great enjoyment !

I believe this is a great statement.

I have a dedicated HT room that is a bonus room above the garage...very well isolated from the rest of the house. When we built the house, for whatever reason a dedicated audio room was not on my radar (I still haven't figured out why ) and we ended up with a room width of 12'. This is a noticeable handicap, but I am somewhat forced to make it work as this is by far the best space considering all the pros and cons. I have bigger and better spaces available in the house, but they are not nearly as isolated and would then incur the wrath of my 4 boys...

I've decided on my CLSIIa's as the speakers for the 2-channel rig (Tannoys will be used for HT). The subwoofer is an Inifinite Baffle using 8 15" drivers...I expect some nice integration. I'm really hoping the 12' width will be a handicap that can be overcome, but all things considered, I think that I will still get some serious enjoyment out of this room nonetheless. :rocker:

 

[C.A.P]

I believe this is a great statement.

I'm really hoping the 12' width will be a handicap that can be overcome, but all things considered, I think that I will still get some serious enjoyment out of this room nonetheless. :rocker:

The width is not as bad as a shallow room. As long as you get them out into a room to breath. At least 4 feet or more. If your only 12 wide, measure from the center of the room and have the out side wood frame at 16 inches as side wall reflections do not effect the ESL like a cone .

 

[Aaron S]

The width is not as bad as a shallow room. As long as you get them out into a room to breath. At least 4 feet or more. If your only 12 wide, measure from the center of the room and have the out side wood frame at 16 inches as side wall reflections do not effect the ESL like a cone .

Yep, that's right about where I figure they are going to end up. :cheers:

Depth is good...the room is 24' deep, but I'm going to shorten it up to 21' for better acoustics. Plenty of room to pull them out away from the HT screen wall.

 

[wallacefl]

New panels are not made with clear spars and micro perf technology. Its not posible with the older X-overs and the space required in between the stators.

Do you work or design for Martin Logan?.... I doubt the re-engineering would be that overwhelming...and I want to keep the dark spars...they are spacers and are colored or clear without sound effect due to color.

 

[C.A.P]

Do you work or design for Martin Logan?.... I doubt the re-engineering would be that overwhelming...and I want to keep the dark spars...they are spacers and are colored or clear without sound effect due to color.

Nope, but I did stray at a Holiday Inn last night !

 

[RichTeer]

Nope, but I did stray at a Holiday Inn last night !

Typo, or Freudian slip? ;-) :devil:

 

[ML4Life]

Nothing like resurrecting this thread! Let's talk some CLS!!!!

 

[Brad225]

What would you like to talk about with CLS?

 

[Leporello]

I'm game to resurrect this too.

I will say that, contrary to C.A.P. , my Adcom 555 from the late 1980's did a decent job of driving them. The Cambridge Azure 840 sounded slightly better, but had an annoying habit of often refusing to turn on due to short circuit protection unless I disconnected the speaker first (everybody talks about sub-2 ohm at high frequencies but never at DC, which is also true). But the Parasound Halo JC-1 blows them both away. I won't be thinking about amps again for a while.

These are CLS-II's, not original CLS. But my understanding is they both have abusive impedances, not mitigated until the IIz.

Someone also mentioned the MC275 in this thread. I did have a brief romance with tubes on the CLSII's, a pair of kit built Latino monoblocks. These are a new design, but with transformers spec'ed from the 1960's (Dyna Mark VI, I think). I did not care for them at all, way too rolled off. The Mac may do better at low impedance. I think it is a split-load (plate-cathode) design, which may greatly help the impedance (you want it as low as possible, preferably zero ohms, no matter what the taps on the transformers tell you). But as I said, I'm done with amps for now.

 

[ML4Life]

I love my CLSii's. I have the MC257 amp driving my LCR. Love the soundstage.

 

[cabinum]

@ML4Life I'm with you - just love these speakers. Question - what is LCR? Feeling like the luckiest guy on the planet at the moment. Just found a trade-in Magtech over on Roger's site. I was convinced that it had to be a mistake, as I have never, ever seen one for sale used. Called and confirmed with Roger and did the deal. Anyone here upgrade to mono's and trade their Magtech in? If so, I owe you a beer! Looking forward to hearing what all the fuss is about with this amp and the CLS's.

 

[Brad225]

I loved all of the different models of CLS I have owned. As others have said, the CLSIIa definitely had the best bass over all.
I would like to hear Magtech amps some time.

 

[ML4Life]

@ML4Life I'm with you - just love these speakers. Question - what is LCR? Feeling like the luckiest guy on the planet at the moment. Just found a trade-in Magtech over on Roger's site. I was convinced that it had to be a mistake, as I have never, ever seen one for sale used. Called and confirmed with Roger and did the deal. Anyone here upgrade to mono's and trade their Magtech in? If so, I owe you a beer! Looking forward to hearing what all the fuss is about with this amp and the CLS's.

My Left, Center, Right. CLSII's and a Logos Center.

 

[cabinum]

@Brad225 If I'm ever down visiting my sister in Naples, I'll give you a shout and bring it with me. I'd love to hear your system with solid state, though it'd be hard to top the current setup.

@ML4Life That's what I initially thought, but was having a hard time picturing a CLS as a center channel

 

[Brad225]

@Brad225 If I'm ever down visiting my sister in Naples, I'll give you a shout and bring it with me. I'd love to hear your system with solid state, though it'd be hard to top the current setup.

@ML4Life That's what I initially thought, but was having a hard time picturing a CLS as a center channel

Anytime you are driving through you are welcome to stop for some listening time. Be sure to let us know how the MagTech sounds with your CLSs.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I have been driving my CLSiiZ's with a Pass Labs, X150.8. It is effortless. I had replaced a Conrad Johnson Premier 350 with the Pass Labs. The Pass Labs has much more control over the low end. The CJ had mid-range which was wonderful.
I the CLS is an experiment in room placement, equipment, the music played and of course how it sounds to you! I just recently moved to the mid-west (Indiana) so I am still tweaking a bit. It is more "live" than my old room but still very good.

As always just listen, smile and enjoy!!

Jeff

 

[Robert D]

I have been driving my CLSiiZ's with a Pass Labs, X150.8. It is effortless. I had replaced a Conrad Johnson Premier 350 with the Pass Labs. The Pass Labs has much more control over the low end. The CJ had mid-range which was wonderful.
I the CLS is an experiment in room placement, equipment, the music played and of course how it sounds to you! I just recently moved to the mid-west (Indiana) so I am still tweaking a bit. It is more "live" than my old room but still very good.

As always just listen, smile and enjoy!!

Jeff

Pass Labs seems to be the big go to around here. I'd love to hear one. I'm using an Aragon now. You probably aren't living too far from Indy Labs now.