CLS IIz vs Summit/Spire

[zaphod]

i have a Logos center with my CLS and Horchem1972 is right as to the very close sonic match.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Batman,
Not to extend a long winded discussion but I too have CLSiiZ's. I use them for two channel and HT without issue. I have a Theater i as the center and it blends nicely. I have not had an issue of a bit of rise in the treble issue stated here but everyone has different criteria they base that on and no need to really discuss that further.

My room is 17x14 and open in the back. I have my speakers on the long wall. I have plenty of bass with one Depth. I have the crossover set at 40hz for the Depth any more at it gets muddy. Would two Depths be better that is a maybe for me. I think room treatments are a must and you will be amazed what you hear.

Good luck

Jeff

 

[c_morse]

Jeff,

How exactly did you set up the subwoofer, cabling wise?

 

[ronenash]

I have used the CLS IIz in the past and currently own the Spires. The CLSIIz is a great speaker but a very problematic one. For starters it need a large room. Even in a large room its very difficult to setup and match. The sweet spot is very narrow and as you move your head left and right the sound changes end to end. You will also experience a comb effect and projection of certain frequencies forward in the sound stage.
The Spires on the other hand are more dynamic, can play loader, are extremely detailed and have bass. They throw a huge sound stage and have that live performance you are there feeling like no other speaker I have used.
Overall I think the Spires/Summit are a better buy and one that will be easier to enjoy.

Hope this helps,
Ronenash

 

[Bernard]

I think the long wall is the only way to make them sound good

My point was that if they are on the long wall and the other room dimension is 11ft, then the speaker-to-listener distance would be very small, considering that the speakers cannot go against a wall, and that the listener should not be against a wall either.

 

[DTB300]

I use them for two channel and HT without issue.

Same here. But I did build my rig for music first, then added the ability for HT and family movies.

I have not had an issue of a bit of rise in the treble issue stated here but everyone has different criteria they base that on and no need to really discuss that further.

Agree and I have no "forward" frequency sounding issues, and very limited comb effects here either, but then again my room is also extensively treated - the real key to getting the most of ones speakers and room interaction.

Once you get the right component synergy another key for all ML is toe-in and rake to get the sound you are looking for. Not enough toe and the sweet spot can get minuscule, too much and you diminish sound stage width - it is a careful balancing act.

For room size, it depends. All speakers would love to have some space for them, but most of us here also have to "live" in these spaces too. Even though I do not have the ideal room (by far), I get great sound. Sure spread out the speakers and you "might" get better sound, but speaker distance apart is not synonymous with improved sound.

ML's have always had the issue of smaller sweet spots than some of the other brands out there so it is not just limited to the CLS.

I think room treatments are a must and you will be amazed what you hear.

This is one of the best suggestions and ideas posted here, and not just for CLS, but for any speaker one may like to use. Yeah Jeff!!!

 

[David Matz]

I've personally met Alan Sircom on two separate occasions in the old Hi-Fi Choice offices in Baker Street London (UK) a number of years ago. He's a very respected and knowledgeable Hi-Fi reviewer, there's no doubt about that. He's listened to the very best equipment available in his time. Everything he has stated in the above review rings true and in no way affects what I have stated in my comparison of the CLS IIz, Summit and Spire. Alan mentions that the low bass is better (i.e DEEPER) on the Summit than the CLS IIz. This is because the CLS doesn't produce deep bass at all, it's pretty much bass light and basically quite thin sounding in the upper bass through to lower midrange. So deeper fuller bass and midrange goes in the Summits favour. The other problem with the CLS he is referring to is a slightly edgy treble which is just evident. The Summit doesn't have this problem with it's treble response which is evenly balanced. So as a basic overall picture this makes the Summit a more accurate and balanced loudspeaker package than the CLS IIz. It doesn't have anywhere as near as many foibles/shortcomings as the CLS IIz does. However the CLS was definitely very slightly clearer and quicker sounding than the Summit on comparison. This is probably due to the thin/dry bass and slight lift in the treble region. There were three of us there carefully listening and we all agreed we definitely heard this so it wasn't my imagination.

Is Ruth's Chris steak better than Morton's? McDoanld's or Steak and Shake fries? Is chocolate better than peanut butter? ... It's all tastes and preferences...

Exposing the original poster to a different point of view does not negate what you prefer.

Dan, the bottom line is you like it better. That's all that matters.

 

[Dan Osib]

Is Ruth's Chris steak better than Morton's? McDoanld's or Steak and Shake fries? Is chocolate better than peanut butter? ... It's all tastes and preferences...

Exposing the original poster to a different point of view does not negate what you prefer.

Dan, the bottom line is you like it better. That's all that matters.

Actually you are wrong David I like the Summit and CLS IIz both the same. As I've already explained, one speaker has qualities that the other speaker doesn't have and vice versa. Basically the Summit does deep bass and the CLS doesn't. Whereas the CLS sounds slightly clearer.

 

[Dan Osib]

To further explain the slight edginess in the treble of the CLS IIz. I've measured this speaker numerous times with a Tact room correction preamp via my PC. When viewing the resulting frequency chart there appears to be a very slight lift/emphasis in what I believe to be approximately the lower to mid treble region. This can be tamed when you partner the CLS IIz with silky smooth sounding amplification and this is probably the reason why most of the people here have not been able to identify this minor shortcoming. Valve amps in particular are known for their silky smooth treble, and this is exactly what the majority of people like to use with the CLS IIz, so it comes as no surprise. As I have already previously explained, my theory is that this very subtle emphasis/exaggeration in the treble region is the reason why this loudspeaker appears to have such a enhanced clarity over it's competitors.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Jeff,

How exactly did you set up the subwoofer, cabling wise?

Batman,
I have it hooked up from my second pre out of my preamp for 2 channel and I also am using the LFE when I do that for HT.

In reality I think it is not working for the LFE any more and that is because there was too much bass. I have my surround processor set for no sub since I also have it bypassed anyway so really the pre outs take care of the bass. It may sound strange but there is plenty of bass and yes even explosions rock the room.

Jeff

 

[C.A.P]

Don't pin your self to the rear wall at the sacrifice of the wide wall for a front wall. CLS can do well near side walls if set up right ! Bass will be reinforced too. I truly believe MANY if not all CLS owners give up and call it quits in the bass department and just get a sub. There is good bass to 40 hz when done right. The room is the biggest factor. That being said many don't have the best room and a sub can augment them well. When done right sans NO sub the bass is great and fast with NO blend issue. You have to have a amp that has balls though to get them to go low

 

[2beornot2bop]

I've compared the CLS IIz with the Summit/Spires. The CLS's reveal significantly more musical detail than the Summit/Spires. The bass on the CLS IIz is pretty poor though in terms of quantity and needs a partnering subwoofer. Bear in mind this is coming from a person who is not a bass head. As for center speaker, the bigger the model the better a partner for the CLS's.

I beg to differ about a lack of bass from CLSiiz's. Connect a pair of Manley 450 tube mono amplifiers to them, put on some decent organ music and rock the house down.

I chuckle to how folks chime in about their personal experience and make a wrong assumption that someone else should experience what they experienced even though everyone uses completely different electronics and entirely different acoustical environments. :music: