Cary fans, advice on CD player/preamp options...

[asindc]

My system is as follows:

Cary 306/200 CD player-----Nordost Heimdall XLR ICs-----Cary SLP-2002 preamp (Mundorf cap upgrade and NOS tubes)-----Nordost Heimdall XLR ICs-----Parasound JC1 monoblocks-----Nordost Heimdall SCs-----ML Vantages.


I'm considering the following:

1) Replacing my SLP-2002 with a Cary SLP-05; or

2) Replacing my SLP-2002 with an SLP-03, and my 306/200 with a 306SACD.


I have heard the SLP-05 in my system, but not the SLP-03 or the 306SACD (though I have heard the 306SACD in another system). If it is not obvious by now, I love the Cary sound. I am wondering if the 05 improvement over the 03 is more substantial than the 306SACD improvement over the 306/200. I own very few SACDs, so that is not a major factor at this point.

Any thoughts?

Anthony

 

[timm]

for what it is worth anthony -- the guy that sold me my slp98p ...I asked him about the 306 -- he liked the ayre c-7xe better...and he absolutely loved the 98p.... He also thought the esoterics were better as well. He had neither to sell me - so there was no advantage for him saying one vs the other. You still need that cinema bypass and balanced connections? what is the impedance of the parasound JC1s? btw - thanks for your input before I purchased the 98p ... fantastic pre-amp.... FWIW - all of what I just said was someone else's opinion - not my own (I have not heard the players mentioned).

 

[asindc]

for what it is worth anthony -- the guy that sold me my slp98p ...I asked him about the 306 -- he liked the ayre c-7xe better...and he absolutely loved the 98p.... He also thought the esoterics were better as well. He had neither to sell me - so there was no advantage for him saying one vs the other. You still need that cinema bypass and balanced connections? what is the impedance of the parasound JC1s? btw - thanks for your input before I purchased the 98p ... fantastic pre-amp.... FWIW - all of what I just said was someone else's opinion - not my own (I have not heard the players mentioned).

Timm,

Thanks for the comments. I have heard the Ayre, but not in my system. I prefer the more dynamic (IMO) sound of the Carys. I haven't heard the Esoterics and I am interested in the new SA-50 since it has digital inputs.

Yes, in my hybrid 2-channel/HT setup, cinema bypass is a must. I prefer balanced over RCA on the theory that if balanced connectors are quieter over longer runs, then they are also quieter over shorter runs. Yes, I know the shorter the run the less it matters, but I rather use balanced even if the difference is negligible at best.

 

[twich54]

Anthony, as you know I too am a Cary CDP fan and I see / hear NO compelling reason to upgrade from my 303/300 untill the day it croaks ! with that being said the 306 would be on my short list as well !

 

[timm]

Intersting - your comment about the Cary dynamics... I have not heard the ayre - but know it is used as a reference for many reviewers - so I know (chris farley voice..) 'Jack Squat'... I know some others here have the 306...would be interested in their characterization of their Cary cd/sacd players as well...

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Anthony,

I certainly would not discourage you from pursuing the 306 SACD CDP.

To my ears and in my system, very musical with great soundstaging and imaging.

The other feature (absent being able to use the DAC) is the upsampling features in the analogue and digital domain. Offers tremendous flexibility to really fine tune the sonics to your taste.

Highly recommended. And you can get the 306 or 306 Pro for between $3,500 to $4K on the Gon.

GG

 

[jtwrace]

I'll sell you my black Cary SLP-05 (1.5 yrs old) with stock tubes which were only used initally until I replaced them with Pope Holland tubes and Mullard NOS rectifier.

Let me know...


PM if interested

 

[DTB300]

I have heard the SLP-05 in my system, but not the SLP-03 or the 306SACD (though I have heard the 306SACD in another system). If it is not obvious by now, I love the Cary sound. I am wondering if the 05 improvement over the 03 is more substantial than the 306SACD improvement over the 306/200. I own very few SACDs, so that is not a major factor at this point.

For less money than a used 306 you can get a brand new Sony 5400 and have it upgraded by Vacuum State with new output stages and new clock. So a brand new player for less money and more performance??? Tough decision IMO.

Recently someone who owned a Marantz had the opportunity to compare it against an upgraded 5400.

"We had a comparison between the Upgraded 5400ES and a Marantz SA-11-s2 yesterday.

The client who brought his Marantz to compare was stunned - after the first chords of the choosen track had sounded - he let out a "WHOOP" of surprise, and when quizzed later on what he heard as the difference, said:

"The room just opened up,..I could clearly hear the two voice very differentiated...it's so much clearer...etc etc etc."

BTW, the person left their Marantz to be upgraded.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi DTB,

A couple of questions.

More performance than what?

Have you compared the two units (Cary and modded Sony) side by side?

What's the relevance of comparing a Marantz to a modded Sony in this thread?

What's the resale impact on a modded unit?

GG

 

[DTB300]

A couple of questions.
More performance than what?
Have you compared the two units (Cary and modded Sony) side by side?
What's the relevance of comparing a Marantz to a modded Sony in this thread?
What's the resale impact on a modded unit?

Thread was also discussing the upgrade to a 306, which I reference in my post.

Price: The Marantz is a player running around $3.5k new - around the same price as picking up a used 306 Cary. A new modded 5400 will run less than $3k. Same price point comparisons again.

Output Type: The modded 5400 has been talked about as an improvement over the modded 777. Both are two channel, as are the Cary units and the Marantz - again a reason behind the comparisons.

Warranty: People with modded Sony players have sent them off to Sony (Sony issue not mods) and have had Sony work on them under warranty. VSE and Modwright will also work on the players too.

Performance: I have heard both the 303 and 306 but not side by side with a Modded 5400. I have heard a modded VSE player (777). I have heard the differences between a Player with stock clock, and LC Audio Clock, and a VSE Clock.

Performance: Player abilities, cost spent on player, sonic performances of player. How much does it cost and how does it sound? Why spend more for less performance?

Personal listening: For me, based on previous listening experiences with both a Cary and a VSE modded player (but again not side by side) I would take the VSE modded player easily and use the extra money on music or other needs.

Plenty of reports out there on people either adding an output stage or the new clocks on stock players or modded ones.

Resale of a modded player: They pop up now and then on the 'Gon but seem to sell quickly. The VSE players on 'Gon tend to be the older models being sold. Parts for the Sony 777 and 9000 are slim, little, or none, so once they break (sled motor, gears, laser assembly) - as with any player this old - you cannot get it fixed.

Hearing a modded player: Probably one of the biggest reasons people do not want to follow the modded route. Contacting VSE or Modwright may help in finding people who have players for you to listen to. Modwright used to have some dealers that carried their products.

 

[asindc]

For less money than a used 306 you can get a brand new Sony 5400 and have it upgraded by Vacuum State with new output stages and new clock. So a brand new player for less money and more performance??? Tough decision IMO.

Recently someone who owned a Marantz had the opportunity to compare it against an upgraded 5400.

"We had a comparison between the Upgraded 5400ES and a Marantz SA-11-s2 yesterday.

The client who brought his Marantz to compare was stunned - after the first chords of the choosen track had sounded - he let out a "WHOOP" of surprise, and when quizzed later on what he heard as the difference, said:

"The room just opened up,..I could clearly hear the two voice very differentiated...it's so much clearer...etc etc etc."

BTW, the person left their Marantz to be upgraded.

Dan,

Thanks for the comments. After hearing your modded Sony several times now, I understand why you are an ardent proponent of modded CD players. Just to clarify, however, the Cary 306SACD goes for $2,500-$3,000 on A'gon, while the Cary 306SACD Pro goes for $3,600-$4,200. The 306SACD (non-Pro) is what I'm considering.

If I was to consider a modded player, I would definitely have to buy used. I just don't feel comfortable buying a player and having it modded without hearing it first. At least if I buy it used, I can quickly sell it for about the same price.

Aside from that, I prefer the Cary sound. I have heard Cary CD players in several different systems (non-stat speakers, tube amps, as a DAC, all solid-state gear, etc.) and nothing I've heard along the way has swayed my opinion... except the way more expensive gear like Wadia.

By the way, I'm not surprised to hear that the modded Sony impressed the listener more than the Marantz. I like Marantz, but I think even their higher-end models have a very smooth, languid sound that sacrifices clarity to some degree. Based on my listening experience, I would choose the Marantz over some comparable players, but probably also would have chosen the modded Sony over the Marantz.

 

[DTB300]

If I was to consider a modded player, I would definitely have to buy used. I just don't feel comfortable buying a player and having it modded without hearing it first. At least if I buy it used, I can quickly sell it for about the same price.

And hearing a modded player has always been a road block for people. I respect those who want to buy something they can hear first.

You had your Cary Pre modded by Cary, so you have some background on mods and improvements. But that was part swapping (if I am not mistaken), not new output sections.

Reliability has also be brought up as an issue and getting a player repaired. While I cannot speak for VSE or Modwright and issues they have had with modded players (drop them an email if curious), I know my player has performed flawlessly. And both modders (Modwright and VSE) will do a through check on the player to make sure it is running top notch for both the stock and modded sections.

People have bought the 5400 new, listened for a few weeks, then had it modded, so buying used is not the only option.

Buying used is always an issue that can bite each of us no matter if stock or modded unit.

There are some who feel buying a used player to have it modded is a bad path to take. The 5400 can be purchased new and modded, same with some newer Marantz players. New player modding has convinced a bunch of people to go the modded route. This is what I did, buy a new player and had mods done to it - even had a new laser/drive installed later on by the modder.

Aside from that, I prefer the Cary sound. I have heard Cary CD players in several different systems (non-stat speakers, tube amps, as a DAC, all solid-state gear, etc.) and nothing I've heard along the way has swayed my opinion... except the way more expensive gear like Wadia.

And like listening first, knowing what you like is a big thing. If you prefer the Cary sound, then by all means stick with it. It may cost more in the long run but you get a piece you prefer and like.

And the Sony sounding better but costing less than the Marantz is my point in considering mods - better performance, lower cost. Personally I do not like the Marantz players either. There is another example of a person with a 5 figure player as their reference player, only to be replaced by the modded player. Why?? better sound. One just has to search to find all these examples I am talking about as it is not just my opinion.

People can spend their money anyway they want, but looking for great sound at a lower cost is always a path we all try to follow.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dan,

Totally understand your perspective. As fate would have it, the only CDP that I've had modded was my very first. A Phillips or Magnavox modified by Mod Squad. Seemed to be a wise move at the time and wasn't very expensive if I recall.

Don't have any experiences with Modwright, etc. As for the Cary 306 SACD, it certainly pushes all my buttons.

As with all things audio, value is a very personal judgement and I try to avoid stating Product A is better (more value from a price / performance perspective) than Product B.

Glad you like your modded player.

GG

 

[DTB300]

Don't have any experiences with Modwright, etc. As for the Cary 306 SACD, it certainly pushes all my buttons.

And getting the right buttons pushed is what this hobby is all about. No need to get a player modded that someone feels just does it for them. But if looking at a new player for replacement of what someone currently owns is where modding should be considered.

As with all things audio, value is a very personal judgement and I try to avoid stating Product A is better (more value from a price / performance perspective) than Product B.

Yes it can be personal judgment. But over and over I have heard, as well as others, the benefits reaped with a modded player. Not just part swapping mods, but new output stages and the new clocks. These statements are backed up by many happy customers of VSE and Modwright (the two companies I would highly recommend).

Statements like mine regarding the sound of modded players are made by far too many to be just personal judgment sided opinions.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dan,

Again, I have no personal experience with current mods done to CDP's or other gear for that matter.

With all due respect, the fact that many say this is a great value means little to me. It's not uncommon that one can read many reviews about a product with a similar tone, be it good or bad, and someone will have a totally different reaction to that product.

I've had several experiences that validate that position over the years.

Having said that and IMHO, everyone needs to do their due diligence and make their own determination.

If a mod offers the potential for a substantial performance gain for a reasonable amount of money, one should clearly consider that option.

Best,

Gordon

 

[DTB300]

Gordon and others....

There is a new review of the Terra Firma Clock being added to a "price friendly" Yamaha stock player on Positive Feedback - Nov/Dec 2009 in case one wants to read more "professional" reviews.

Just go to Positive Review website and choose the latest issue and you will see the review.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Thanks for the info.

I'll check it out.

Gordon