BIG news from ML coming out of 2016 CES...

[RUR]

Thanks!

I'll check it out.

I'd be using it only for stereo use since I'm limited in my listening room in terms of treatments that my wife would allow. I guess I'll need to download the 2 week free trial and see what I think.

Good luck! Do be sure you maximize those two weeks by getting help from experienced users so that it's set up properly. Also, spend time experimenting with changes to the target curve. IME, even minor changes can make big differences in subjective preference.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Good luck! Do be sure you maximize those two weeks by getting help from experienced users so that it's set up properly. Also, spend time experimenting with changes to the target curve. IME, even minor changes can make big differences in subjective preference.

I'll read up before I get started, but I'm not sure who I could get to help me locally.

 

[RUR]

I'll read up before I get started, but I'm not sure who I could get to help me locally.

Start a thread in this forum @ computer audiophile: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f23-dsp-room-correction-and-multi-channel-audio/ Easy to join if you're not a member.

Username flak (realname Flavio) is a Dirac employee, monitors the forum and is helpful with any and all requests. And, there are a number of experienced Dirac users who are generally generally willing to help.

 

[bonzo]

I believe he's also on record as stating that improvements via room correction and/or minor changes to the target curve absolutely dwarf sonic differences between DACs, if any.

He uses Trinnov for MCH and bypasses for 2-ch, actually. Uses MSB dac

 

[RUR]

He uses Trinnov for MCH and bypasses for 2-ch, actually. Uses MSB dac

Yep, he uses Acourate for 2ch.

Acourate can produce multiple target curves. If I had several rather than just one, and knew which one I wanted to use for each file, then I would simply convolve using the appropriate/respective target curve and place the resultant file on my NAS.

I've settled on one target curve that I use for all my two channel listening. In effect, I want to hear what's on the track, as it was meant to sound when recorded. Disks/tracks that sound lousy with my preferred target curve just don't make it into my playback rotation.

If you want to do "real time switching of target curves" then you'd convolve multiple target curves, and select between the correct NAS file at playback time. (Alternatively, if you were using USB to your dac you could use alternative correction files inside J River or it's equivalent.)

Emphasis mine. In effect, he's avoiding some content because it's too much trouble to utilize multiple target curves in Acourate. Why do we sometimes need alternate curves? See Toole's Circle of Confusion.

 

[User211]

I'm not following, Justin. Undesirable room (and other) effects are introduced during replay, mucking up the intended sound with poor impulse response and improper spectral balance. If we're sitting in that room listening to your fine guitar recording what can we do to mitigate these effects and thereby get closer to the intended sound?

I find it easy to follow. Stupidly easy but that's cos I wrote it What's more I know I am right LOL.

Which part(s) don't you follow?

 

[RUR]

OK, Justin... Let's see if I can correctly parse your original post.

I know Ken. But given that room effects are typically vastly reduced in the studio as otherwise you'd be listening to them, it is surely natural that room effects are introduced on replay.

You're referring to the reflections, if any, in the mastering room and how they will invariably be different in our listening rooms, yes?

It isn't that simple, in other words.

"It" being room correction?

Recording my electric and replaying it with room effects is a complete croc of .....

I've lost you, here. This is what we all do every time we sit down to listen to a recording - with or without room correction.

Better plugging guitars straight into some hardware if you can. Or into a guitar amp with room correction LOL.

What, exactly, is it you believe room correction is meant to do?

 

[sleepysurf]

Getting this thread back on topic D), I noticed ML's marketing materials for the Renaissance ESL 15A list it as being part of the "Masterpiece Series" which I presume replaces the "Reserve" nomenclature for top tier models. See pic...




Historically, each ML model had it's own unique name (Summit/X, Montis, Ethos, etc). However, this model is the Renaissance ESL 15A, which implies there will be other Renaissance models forthcoming, perhaps a smaller Summit replacement (?? ESL 10A) with 10" woofers +/- narrower panel? Has anybody asked ML reps about that?

Unfortunately, I haven't yet found the exact dimensions for the ESL 15A, but am concerned it might be a little too big for my room. Something like an ESL 10A (Summit sized replacement) might be more feasible.

 

[GaryG]

Getting this thread back on topic D), I noticed ML's marketing materials for the Renaissance ESL 15A list it as being part of the "Masterpiece Series" which I presume replaces the "Reserve" nomenclature for top tier models. See pic...

View attachment 18393


Historically, each ML model had it's own unique name (Summit/X, Montis, Ethos, etc). However, this model is the Renaissance ESL 15A, which implies there will be other Renaissance models forthcoming, perhaps a smaller Summit replacement (?? ESL 11A) with 10" woofers +/- narrower panel? Has anybody asked ML reps about that?

Unfortunately, I haven't yet found the exact dimensions for the ESL 15A, but am concerned it might be a little too big for my room. Something like an ESL 11A (Summit sized replacement) might be more feasible.

I see your point on the nomenclature. I also thought perhaps they had plans for a a series of Renaissance speakers of various sizes. While at CES I asked and was told no they did not have plans for other Renaissance named speakers.

Gary

 

[Bernard]

Strange nomenclature: "Renaissance ESL"....rebirth of the ESL? I'm theorizing that it refers to the redesign/rebirth (?) incorporating ARC. If there aren't going to be other Renaissance-named speakers, maybe this will be the only one with ARC? Somehow I don't think so!

Looking forward to seeing their plans for the CLX. I've wanted one ever since hearing Roberto's setup.

 

[asindc]

I don't find the design objectionable, and aesthetics weigh significantly in my choices. Looks elegantly functional to me. Sound wise, the early initial reports from CES have been across-the-board positive from what I've read.

 

[User211]

OK, Justin... Let's see if I can correctly parse your original post.


You're referring to the reflections, if any, in the mastering room and how they will invariably be different in our listening rooms, yes?


"It" being room correction?


I've lost you, here. This is what we all do every time we sit down to listen to a recording - with or without room correction.


What, exactly, is it you believe room correction is meant to do?

Ken, I haven't forgotten will reply over the weekend - working long days at the mo

 

[GaryG]

This is awesome, Gary, plus the idea of going immersive. I think one more way to up your system, though expensive, is to replace your centre channel with one Neolith. If too expensive, to replace it with a Renaissance.

KEDAR I agree with you 100%. I have purchase and received a Trinnov Altituded32 fully loaded 16-32. I have contracted Curt Hoyt for setup. I'm unable to place either the Neolith or Renaisance for center due to height restrictions. I will start a new thread on this soon and discuss center options.

Gary

 

[RUR]

Ken, I haven't forgotten will reply over the weekend - working long days at the mo

Justin, the point's been made that we're well off-topic. Howsabout we take it to PM?

 

[sleepysurf]

Based on this picture at AVSForum, I'm afraid this new model would be overwhelming (at least size-wise) for my family/listening room. The woofer cabinet looks HUGE!



I wish ML would post detailed specs on their website, with dimensions (and cabinet finish options). Guess I'll reserve final judgement until I see/hear them somewhere.

In the meantime, my 2nd BalancedForce 210 Sub is being delivered today, so that will keep me preoccupied for a few months!

 

[timm]

Based on this picture at AVSForum, I'm afraid this new model would be overwhelming (at least size-wise) for my family/listening room. The woofer cabinet looks HUGE!

View attachment 18401

I wish ML would post detailed specs on their website, with dimensions (and cabinet finish options). Guess I'll reserve final judgement until I see/hear them somewhere.

In the meantime, my 2nd BalancedForce 210 Sub is being delivered today, so that will keep me preoccupied for a few months!

Yah. That pic almost makes them look 3' deep doesn't it? I highly doubt you would need two subs with these. Just my opinion of course as we all have different bass needs.

Maybe someone could comment who saw them in the flesh?

Saying all of that... I think that monster cabinet gives you a much smoother bass response. I find the current models with the smaller cabinets too 'punchy'.

 

[sleepysurf]

Found this video on YouTube which appears to be a (??) pre-production model. The woofer cabinet looks a bit less daunting here. Hopefully we'll get full specs/dimensions soon.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Found this video on YouTube which appears to be a (??) pre-production model. The woofer cabinet looks a bit less daunting here. Hopefully we'll get full specs/dimensions soon.

I looks like a large dedicated subwoofer cabinet at the bottom of the speaker. There is nothing small about that enclosure and you are not going to want a 15" woofer that close to the wall behind it either. This speaker looks like it will need to "breathe"

The latest pictures do look more aesthetically pleasing which is great, but they wouldn't fit in my current space either.

Speakers of this size deserve a custom audio room to play in. Maybe in my next home, but I'm hoping to stay in my current home until we build our retirement home which could be another 10-15 years off. I like not having a mortgage. Although my wife told me I would need a larger home if I ever wanted room for a machine shop and to spread my wood shop out so there is a chance I'll jump early.

 

[sleepysurf]

... d you are not going to want a 15" woofer that close to the wall behind it either. This speaker looks like it will need to "breathe"

Actually, they have dual 12" woofers (the "15" refers to the panel width), but I agree they need room to "breathe" with the panels ideally 36+" from front wall. The built-in Anthem Room Correction should (theoretically, at least) help smooth out the bass response, but time will tell.

Of note, at our local audiophile club meeting yesterday, one of the members who heard the Renaissance ESL 15A's at CES told me they sounded phenomenal, and (in his opinion) even better than the Neolith. In this video, somebody says that the new model won't be shipping until March or April. I see that ML will be demo'ing at Axpona, but only the Neolith and something from the Motion line are listed to be shown. Perhaps they'll have the Renaissance there too. Unfortunately, I can't make it this year, so remain dependent on anecdotal reviews.

 

[GaryG]

Actually, they have dual 12" woofers (the "15" refers to the panel width), but I agree they need room to "breathe" with the panels ideally 36+" from front wall. The built-in Anthem Room Correction should (theoretically, at least) help smooth out the bass response, but time will tell.

Of note, at our local audiophile club meeting yesterday, one of the members who heard the Renaissance ESL 15A's at CES told me they sounded phenomenal, and (in his opinion) even better than the Neolith. In this video, somebody says that the new model won't be shipping until March or April. I see that ML will be demo'ing at Axpona, but only the Neolith and something from the Motion line are listed to be shown. Perhaps they'll have the Renaissance there too. Unfortunately, I can't make it this year, so remain dependent on anecdotal reviews.

Yes the Renaisance sounds great especially the bass and the bass integration with the panel. They plan on shipping in March MY order is first it may take a little longer because I ordered them in Ferrari red which takes longer.The bass is rated down to 22 Hz which is actually slightly better than the Neoliths. But It is definitely a step too far to say the Renaisance is in any way better than the Neoliths. When I get mine in I will compare them carefully and will report back to MLO.

Gary