BIG news from ML coming out of 2016 CES...

[RCHeliGuy]

Since I already listen to all my music through a PC using JRiver, I've been considering trying Dirac Live Stereo. I understand it works well and uses a smart combination of FIR and IRR filtering as well as some other tools.

 

[User211]

Since I already listen to all my music through a PC using JRiver, I've been considering trying Dirac Live Stereo. I understand it works well and uses a smart combination of FIR and IRR filtering as well as some other tools.

Defo try it it is very interesting. Then see if you actually end up using it long term.

I did and don't. Some do

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Defo try it it is very interesting. Then see if you actually end up using it long term.

I did and don't. Some do

Did you find it added artifacts that you didn't like ?

 

[bonzo]

JBL has been doing that for a while, using Crown amps with built-in DSP and/or BSS processors to first correct a given speaker model to ideal anechoic behavior by applying model-specific filter sets, and then to provide tailorable target curves via ARCOS.

But yes, it is great to see ML applying this kind of technology to a new, "audiophile" product.

Is this for their JBL K2 series, or for the JBL 66000 type of models

 

[RUR]

Is this for their JBL K2 series, or for the JBL 66000 type of models

Kedar, I'm not sure if this is limited to their "better" models or not, but I'd be shocked if the K2 and Everest did not use the anechoic fine-tuning filters feature. ARCOS can, of course, be used for any speakers including non-JBL.

I've heard the K2 in an local owners system and it left me cold with a surprisingly tiny sweet spot(!) Never heard an Everest. At CEDIA, the JBL room was fantastic using M2 mains etc. to demo ATMOS/AURO/DTS:X content. So good, I've ordered a pair of 708's to play with in my room.

 

[bonzo]

Kedar, I'm not sure if this is limited to their "better" models or not, but I'd be shocked if the K2 and Everest did not use the anechoic fine-tuning filters feature. ARCOS can, of course, be used for any speakers including non-JBL.

I've heard the K2 in an local owners system and it left me cold with a surprisingly tiny sweet spot(!) Never heard an Everest. At CEDIA, the JBL room was fantastic using M2 mains etc. to demo ATMOS/AURO/DTS:X content. So good, I've ordered a pair of 708's to play with in my room.

I am a big fan of immersive.

Not a fan of K2 or the 66000, heard them many times with different amps, SS and valves.

Want to listen to the vintage JBLs.

 

[User211]

Did you find it added artifacts that you didn't like ?

It takes some getting used to as it does sound odd - sucks quite a bit of life out of the sound.

I am not sure I agree with the philosophy either.

The sound of my electric guitar is the sound of it plus the amp plus the room reflections. Don't tell me I need to room correct that.

Do you catch my drift?

 

[bonzo]

It takes some getting used to as it does sound odd - sucks quite a bit of life out of the sound.

I am not sure I agree with the philosophy either.

The sound of my electric guitar is the sound of it plus the amp plus the room reflections. Don't tell me I need to room correct that.

Do you catch my drift?

Two of us were at Keith's recently listening to the Cessaro Liszt, room corrected by Illusonic processor. We could turn it on and off to AB. Both of us found the sound not natural with the correction on.

That said, I have had positive experiences with Datasat and with Marty's TacT. It all depends on rest of the set up, and the person setting it up. Don't think it is so much of TacT vs Illusonic vs whatever. If I went DRC I would fly down Uli from EU to set up the system with his Acourate software which costs just $400 and is added as a convolve file to the streamer. Would sound much better than me plodding through something.

 

[RUR]

Since I already listen to all my music through a PC using JRiver, I've been considering trying Dirac Live Stereo. I understand it works well and uses a smart combination of FIR and IRR filtering as well as some other tools.

Mark, Dirac Live is one of a very few mixed-phase products which will, when properly set up, almost certainly produce an easily audible improvement in your listening experience - with zero artifacts.

Note the qualifier: "when properly set up"

These are not products which lend themselves to instant gratification. They require careful set up and a basic knowledge of what they're doing, and why. Fortunately, there's an extensive network to assist new users with all aspects of installation, set up, and fine tuning the many product features. The best example I know of is here at AVS. Although that thread is aimed at a multi-channel hardware implementation, the principles as far as the software goes are the same, and there are other threads on other fora which are specific to the PC/Mac software versions.

For a quick sample of user experiences, see this post found in that thread and click the links under "Subjective listening impressions by owners".

 

[RUR]

Two of us were at Keith's recently listening to the Cessaro Liszt, room corrected by Illusonic processor. We could turn it on and off to AB. Both of us found the sound not natural with the correction on.

Illusonic is not a room correction product, so let's not conflate it with Dirac or other RC products. It's an upmixer specifically designed to alter the soundfield. Folks will either like what it does, or not.

 

[bonzo]

Illusonic is not a room correction product, so let's not conflate it with Dirac or other RC products. It's an upmixer specifically designed to alter the soundfield. Folks will either like what it does, or not.

It works well in immersive. Not sure if 2-ch was the correct application

 

[RUR]

It works well in immersive. Not sure if 2-ch was the correct application

I had thought it was intended solely for multi-channel application, but I'm too lazy to check. In any case, let's not call it "room correction" nor compare it to Dirac, etc.

PS: I'm familiar with Acourate and know a couple of guys who genuinely like the product. Problem is, if you make changes to the filters, you have to re-convolve all of your music files. In my world, that's a huge downside.

 

[RUR]

...I am not sure I agree with the philosophy either.

The sound of my electric guitar is the sound of it plus the amp plus the room reflections. Don't tell me I need to room correct that.

Justin, the problem is this: If you recorded the sound of your electric guitar in your room, then played it back using different speakers in a different room with different acoustical properties, would it sound the same?

 

[bonzo]

I had thought it was intended solely for multi-channel application, but I'm too lazy to check. In any case, let's not call it "room correction" nor compare it to Dirac, etc.

PS: I'm familiar with Acourate and know a couple of guys who genuinely like the product. Problem is, if you make changes to the filters, you have to re-convolve all of your music files. In my world, that's a huge downside.

I thought you could set up a convolver for your player (e.g. Jriver) or for the PC, so everything played through it will go through the same filter. If you used an Aurender you probably will have to convolve each file separately

 

[User211]

I know Ken. But given that room effects are typically vastly reduced in the studio as otherwise you'd be listening to them, it is surely natural that room effects are introduced on replay.

It isn't that simple, in other words.

Recording my electric and replaying it with room effects is a complete croc of .... Better plugging guitars straight into some hardware if you can. Or into a guitar amp with room correction LOL.

 

[RUR]

I thought you could set up a convolver for your player (e.g. Jriver) or for the PC, so everything played through it will go through the same filter. If you used an Aurender you probably will have to convolve each file separately

Kedar, I got this from a user @ AVS:

Acourate works very well for 2-channel playback. There's a pretty steep learning curve, but the vendor is very helpful via email. Like you, I use Acourate NAS. The only drawback is that if you change your target curve then you have to reconvolve your library, which in my case consumes several days of an i7 processor.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul.../1516103-trinnov-altitude-6.html#post27839449 (Post #339)

Perhaps the reconvolution requirement is unique to Acourate NAS.

 

[RUR]

I know Ken. But given that room effects are typically vastly reduced in the studio as otherwise you'd be listening to them, it is surely natural that room effects are introduced on replay.

It isn't that simple, in other words.

Recording my electric and replaying it with room effects is a complete croc of .... Better plugging guitars straight into some hardware if you can. Or into a guitar amp with room correction LOL.

I'm not following, Justin. Undesirable room (and other) effects are introduced during replay, mucking up the intended sound with poor impulse response and improper spectral balance. If we're sitting in that room listening to your fine guitar recording what can we do to mitigate these effects and thereby get closer to the intended sound?

 

[bonzo]

Thanks. I know BruceMck. He prefers to output his trinnov to an external dac using digital out to improve SQ

 

[RUR]

Thanks. I know BruceMck. He prefers to output his trinnov to an external dac using digital out to improve SQ

I believe he's also on record as stating that improvements via room correction and/or minor changes to the target curve absolutely dwarf sonic differences between DACs, if any.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Mark, Dirac Live is one of a very few mixed-phase products which will, when properly set up, almost certainly produce an easily audible improvement in your listening experience - with zero artifacts.

Note the qualifier: "when properly set up"

These are not products which lend themselves to instant gratification. They require careful set up and a basic knowledge of what they're doing, and why. Fortunately, there's an extensive network to assist new users with all aspects of installation, set up, and fine tuning the many product features. The best example I know of is here at AVS. Although that thread is aimed at a multi-channel hardware implementation, the principles as far as the software goes are the same, and there are other threads on other fora which are specific to the PC/Mac software versions.

For a quick sample of user experiences, see this post found in that thread and click the links under "Subjective listening impressions by owners".

Thanks!

I'll check it out.

I'd be using it only for stereo use since I'm limited in my listening room in terms of treatments that my wife would allow. I guess I'll need to download the 2 week free trial and see what I think.