Best sub under $1k to add to Spire/Theater i setup?

[Jbannas]

I'm looking to upgrade the subs in my home theater.
I'm currently using a Grotto and a BIC PL200 in an open room that's 20'x15' with vaulted ceilings around 12'. (Yes, I know it's time to upgrade!)
What's the best option under $1k?

I'd love a JL Fathom, but don't have the funds for one.
I'm open to starting with one sub to add to the grotto and then maybe swapping out the grotto down the road to get another matching sub.
HSU, SVS, Epik, Rythmik, etc?

Thanks

 

[Northy]

You should keep it in the family! I would go with a Depth I as it is a great musical, accurate sub which will benefit your Spires. Look for sales and you may get it around $1,500.

 

[Hocky]

You should keep it in the family! I would go with a Depth I as it is a great musical, accurate sub which will benefit your Spires. Look for sales and you may get it around $1,500.

A depth won't fill that room. You might be able to find a used descent that would keep up OK in there. In the end, though, you'll probably be best served going with one of the big subs from the internet direct companies.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Per the recent recommended TAS components edition, REL or PSB.

GG

 

[Jbannas]

Which models of REL or PSB?

 

[Gordon Gray]

I'll post model numbers this PM.

 

[Jbannas]

Thanks Gordon.

In the meantime, I've come up with a few options:
Powersound XV15 - $799 shipped (http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv15)
Epik Empire - $799 + shipping (http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/empire.html)
2 x Epik Legends - $899 + shipping (http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html)
HSU VTF-15H - $1018 shipped (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html)
HSU VTF3-MK4 - $758 shipped (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html)
2 x SVS SB12-NSD - $1149 shipped (http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/dual-sb12-nsd#.UHyOmhhHuSM)
Rythmik F15 - $974 + shipping (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15.html)

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi JB,

PSB SubSeries 5i / $649

REL T5 / $699

REL R-218 / $1,299

GG

PS: PSB is available from Crutchfield. Site indicates no longer available. Check for updated / replacement model.

REL available through Music Direct.

Both are excellent e-companies. Both offer a 30 day money back.

 

[Hocky]

A brief look at those sub specs says that they're all junk.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hocky,

A well informed comment.

We all know specs tell one everything they need to know.

Please take your anger elsewhere.

GG

 

[jmstpierre]

HEY JBananas,
m no expert at all as m pretty much starting out with ML, but regardless of what speakers you have, m pretty sure two or multiple will always be more beneficial, and better go for 2 lower cost subs than a single well respected brand, though if you have the funds go for 2 of the most expensive, lol. however, i the big no no with with multiplke subs, is not mix and match, keep them identical. well at least that s what m led to beleive according to my dealer and installer.
regards
froggy

 

[Northy]

JBananas,

Among all the subs mentioned above, I can only rank REL's high-end models that can compete with either Depth or Descent. Before you order one of these subs online, you should audition the ML subs and hear for yourself the precise speed and decay they provide which will match the speed of your panels better. Sure in terms of sheer output, the other subs might beat the ML models; however, if you are after quality bass, ML is your best ticket.

 

[MOON]

Why not add another Grotto sub.Since your buget is $1K, look on the used market.I wouldn't be mixing different subs.I run 2 Depth i's with excellent results.

 

[Hocky]

Hocky,

A well informed comment.

We all know specs tell one everything they need to know.

Please take your anger elsewhere.

GG

Seriously? Did you look at them before you made the recommendation? I am not angry, but that list from whichever magazine you pulled it from is a joke and was certainly a list of advertiser money, not performance. Not one of them has any chance of even outperforming the Grotto, let alone filling the room that he has sufficiently for music or theater use. They're all small driver, small amp, low output subs. The best of your list is spec'd at -6db at 25hz in room. That is terrible. That isn't a subwoofer.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Haven't heard the Grotto, the REL, or the PSB.

I was merely providing information to the OP listing recommendations from the latest issue of "The Absolute Sound", which also contained JL Audio, Wilson, Paradigm, and others.

"That isn't a subwoofer". I guess the folks at TAS would disagree.

Excuse me.

 

[Jbannas]

I don't think the Grotto has enough umph for the room as it gets lost without turning the knob all the way up.
I moved the Emotiva Ultra 12 into the living room with the PL200.
I could always try to find another Emotiva Ultra 12 and run those in dual, but I still don't know if that's going to be better than a single Empire or VTF-15.

 

[edwinr]

A brief look at those sub specs says that they're all junk.

Hocky, I purchased a REL T2 to match with my Theos speakers. I auditioned every sub in my price range, and none of them sounded like the REL. They had too much boom and coloration. The REL went really low and I was able to easily (well, not so easily...) tune the sub so I couldn't hear it in my system unless I turned it off - that's the sign of a good sub. I auditioned a Martin Logan sub (Grotto i), but it was too much money at the time. The Grotto i sounded like the REL but with a little more punch and head room.

In my 21 foot x 18 foot room, the REL fills the room with extremely low, room filling bass - even at high spls when watching movies like 'Battleship'. In larger rooms I would go for 2 RELs or a larger Martin Logan sub.

 

[Hocky]

Hocky, I purchased a REL T2 to match with my Theos speakers. I auditioned every sub in my price range, and none of them sounded like the REL. They had too much boom and coloration. The REL went really low and I was able to easily (well, not so easily...) tune the sub so I couldn't hear it in my system unless I turned it off - that's the sign of a good sub. I auditioned a Martin Logan sub (Grotto i), but it was too much money at the time. The Grotto i sounded like the REL but with a little more punch and head room.

In my 21 foot x 18 foot room, the REL fills the room with extremely low, room filling bass - even at high spls when watching movies like 'Battleship'. In larger rooms I would go for 2 RELs or a larger Martin Logan sub.

I am glad that you like your sub, but it has serious limitations and especially so in a larger room. I've had subs at pretty much every price point in a large room and with nearly everything except the bottom of the list, I thought that what I had dug deep and was powerful. Every time I brought something else home to try, I was amazed at how much better it could be and became more observant of the distortion, compression, and decay characteristics of the sub. I think that if you try more subs, even if that means testing well outside of your price range, you would more clearly see the limitations of the sub that you're using. And that means testing in your room, not a dealers room - your room dictates what your subwoofer sounds like. Your sub very well could sound cleaner than many of the subs that you tested, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of subs out there in the internet direct market that aren't better and equally or more clean. Subs are a numbers game - more displacement and more power is always more better assuming that the sub is properly damped.

If I was in your shoes and shopping, I would personally wait until I find another $500. You can find a used Descent i for $1500 if you look keenly and that is a great sub. The new Funk Audio 15.0 is quite intriguing. The Epic Empire is a great sub. The SVS SB13 Ultra would be a good option. There is a lot out there. Shop, find what is in your price range, and pick the one that digs deepest, has the most displacement, and has good reviews for music playback. And in the end, find some hardware/software to EQ the sub. That is as important as picking the right sub.

 

[Gordon Gray]

So someone likes the REL sub but you indicate that it's performing inadequately.

Have you heard his system?

How would you know what edwinr is hearing has "serious limitations"?

Somewhat pretentious to say the least.

 

[Hocky]

Call it what you want, but it is reality. A sub that is rolled off at 30hz has serious limitations. This may work OK for someone who only listens to music, but is not acceptable performance for theater.

edit: I am not trying to be a jerk, just posting my opinion of what sub performance should look like, especially in a larger room, and trying to help the OP who is shopping. In my opinion, a sub should be able to play flat to 20hz and at significant levels without compression. Those small subs just can't.