Another Martin Logan price increase coming August 1st.

[Robert D]

To be fair - how long was there between when they discontinued the CLS and introduced the CLX?



You, me and us all. The panels are a consumable item as far as I am concerned. If they stop making panels, the speakers are useless within a period of time. Whatever that may be. That is, forced obsolescence.

Needing new panels is part of the set of compromises we make by purchasing ES panels.

The availability of those panels (and therefore the serviceability of the speakers) is a conscious decision made by ML.

Yes. I was surprised to hear that they will stop making some of the panels. I think there will be a demand for all of them for a long time. Even though they are a bit pricey now, I think it is a fair price to pay. Im 52 years old now, so these new panels will probably outlive me.

 

[ttocs]

The panels are a consumable item as far as I am concerned. If they stop making panels, the speakers are useless within a period of time. Whatever that may be. That is, forced obsolescence.

Yep, absolutely useless. If it weren't for the fact that JBL kept making recone kits for my L-110 speakers, I wouldn't have kept them for 32 years. The woofers were sent to JBL every 10 years for recone work.

Needing new panels is part of the set of compromises we make by purchasing ES panels.

Yep.

The availability of those panels (and therefore the serviceability of the speakers) is a conscious decision made by ML.

This is a big mistake by ML. I am now concerned that my speakers will not be able to be serviced when needed. I was never concerned before now.

 

[amey01]

Yes. I was surprised to hear that they will stop making some of the panels. I think there will be a demand for all of them for a long time. Even though they are a bit pricey now, I think it is a fair price to pay. Im 52 years old now, so these new panels will probably outlive me.

Well, last time they tried this, the entire community had conniptions.

That is what the "Lifetime Service" thread is about.

I can assure you (and ML for that matter) - If my speakers are ever forced-obsolete due to unavailability of panels, it certainly won't make me buy ML again - no matter how much better I think they sound to any competitor.

I buy speakers to be a durable asset and have a resale value when I finish with them. I am not "renting" them as part of some sort of elaborate paid up front "subscription service" for as long as ML may choose (at their discretion) to make the consumable parts.

 

[amey01]

This is a big mistake by ML. I am now concerned that my speakers will not be able to be serviced when needed. I was never concerned before now.

A huge mistake. We're not talking about a $20 pair of scissors here. People are spending multi-$thousands! If customers can't be assured their speakers will work into the future; and have a recoverable resale value, I can't see them making any sales beyond zero. A really serious mistake.

 

[amey01]

Reference here:

https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/lifetime-service-for-martinlogan-products.11712/
You'll note they corrected several years after posting this thread - to try to scale back the commitment.

To me, "service" means they are able to service the product. At the very least, a consumable part would be a must. Otherwise, they can not "service" the product at all.

 

[Robert D]

Reference here:

https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/lifetime-service-for-martinlogan-products.11712/
You'll note they corrected several years after posting this thread - to try to scale back the commitment.

To me, "service" means they are able to service the product. At the very least, a consumable part would be a must. Otherwise, they can not "service" the product at all.

We bought our Audi and Volvo cars from a dealer that promises a "lifetime" warranty on the engine and drivetrain. Once a big problem comes up, they immediately start giving us trouble. Then I have to put up a fight to get something done.
I ended up getting rid of an Audi A6 because of a poor design. I asked if they would cover me if the problem arose and they never gave me a clear answer. They basically tried to avoid it. Sold that damn car about a month later. Now we have a Volvo with an engine design flaw that burns oil. They rebuilt the engine after I fought with them, but it still appears to be burning.
If a business is going to offer lifetime service then they need to stand behind it, otherwise drop that language. I don't like being lied to.

 

[amey01]

We bought our Audi and Volvo cars from a dealer that promises a "lifetime" warranty on the engine and drivetrain. Once a big problem comes up, they immediately start giving us trouble. Then I have to put up a fight to get something done.
I ended up getting rid of an Audi A6 because of a poor design. I asked if they would cover me if the problem arose and they never gave me a clear answer. They basically tried to avoid it. Sold that damn car about a month later. Now we have a Volvo with an engine design flaw that burns oil. They rebuilt the engine after I fought with them, but it still appears to be burning.
If a business is going to offer lifetime service then they need to stand behind it, otherwise drop that language. I don't like being lied to.

Service and Warranty are different things. Service is not free - but you do expect them to be able to get a non-working product to working state, that's for sure. Pretty hard to do without access to the required consumables.

Regarding your Audi experience - yes, unfortunate. I guess their whole MO is to make it "too hard" and hope you'll just go away.

 

[amey01]

From ML's perspective, I don't really understand the problem. There is either great demand for these panels, in which case why not provide them? Or there is very little demand, in which case make a batch every 5 or so years and they don't take up too much room to store. Surely, it is not a costly exercise either way. For the prices they charge for a bit of film wedged between two sheets of metal, it must be a good little side business! The only imaginable reason to discontinue is to enforce obsolescence and guide customers to new products. As per my prior post in that regard - FAT CHANCE; NEVER EVER! Good luck with that. The high-end audio space is awash with fantastic transducer options of all different technologies, including electrostatic. None will sound the same as ML, but many will be great in different ways. And certainly more enjoyable than worrying if you're about to be "evicted" from your purchase!

 

[Robert D]

From ML's perspective, I don't really understand the problem. There is either great demand for these panels, in which case why not provide them? Or there is very little demand, in which case make a batch every 5 or so years and they don't take up too much room to store. Surely, it is not a costly exercise either way. For the prices they charge for a bit of film wedged between two sheets of metal, it must be a good little side business! The only imaginable reason to discontinue is to enforce obsolescence and guide customers to new products. As per my prior post in that regard - FAT CHANCE; NEVER EVER! Good luck with that. The high-end audio space is awash with fantastic transducer options of all different technologies, including electrostatic. None will sound the same as ML, but many will be great in different ways. And certainly more enjoyable than worrying if you're about to be "evicted" from your purchase!

If the speakers were more affordable new then I don't think I'd have as big of a problem with this. Today's world is so much of a throw away culture. Most things today aren't repaired. You throw it out and buy a new one. I guess that's ok if it's a $1000 washing machine, but if I buy a $25,000 pair of speakers they sure as hell better make parts for a long long time.

We are perhaps getting ahead of ourselves here. Do we know what panels they want to stop making?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

We bought our Audi and Volvo cars from a dealer that promises a "lifetime" warranty on the engine and drivetrain. Once a big problem comes up, they immediately start giving us trouble. Then I have to put up a fight to get something done.
I ended up getting rid of an Audi A6 because of a poor design. I asked if they would cover me if the problem arose and they never gave me a clear answer. They basically tried to avoid it. Sold that damn car about a month later. Now we have a Volvo with an engine design flaw that burns oil. They rebuilt the engine after I fought with them, but it still appears to be burning.
If a business is going to offer lifetime service then they need to stand behind it, otherwise drop that language. I don't like being lied to.

*Note- audio non-related*
Have seen many of my good mates end up with bad experiences with these types of cars, even saw a very high tech fancy Merc stranded the other day, in the middle of the mall entrance drive way! Lady owner was furious, kicking the car whiles cussing on the phone... most probably to the Merc rep!!! I asked her what was wrong, said a sensor in the heated seats wasn't working, hence the ignition won't engage as a safety precaution... uh?
Man, in my Honda CRV, all I need to do is let out a few warm ones, & seats are heated! Speaking of which I've always stuck with top line Japanese cars, Honda, Acura, Infinity & Lexus nothing else seems to work long term...
BTW, the NSX is awe-inspiring!

Cheers, RJ

 

[amey01]

*Note- audio non-related*
Have seen many of my good mates end up with bad experiences with these types of cars, even saw a very high tech fancy Merc stranded the other day, in the middle of the mall entrance drive way! Lady owner was furious, kicking the car whiles cussing on the phone... most probably to the Merc rep!!! I asked her what was wrong, said a sensor in the heated seats wasn't working, hence the ignition won't engage as a safety precaution... uh?
Man, in my Honda CRV, all I need to do is let out a few warm ones, & seats are heated! Speaking of which I've always stuck with top line Japanese cars, Honda, Acura, Infinity & Lexus nothing else seems to work long term...
BTW, the NSX is awe-inspiring!

Cheers, RJ

Agree. European cars are lovely - but if you just want to jump in and have everything work as it should - Japanese is your best option. Even Korean cars are better in that regard! My mechanic told me that - when I had a tonne of problems with my last Volvo, I asked him what a problem free car would be. He replied "don't you dare hold me to it, but we never have problems with any of the Hyundais that come through here".

Man, in my Honda CRV

Just wait 'till we all have EVs - they'll be able to ring-fence us, speed control us, monitor where we go, how long we stay, where we go before and after. Oh dear. Your Merc story is just the start.

said a sensor in the heated seats wasn't working, hence the ignition won't engage as a safety precaution... uh?

I used to work in electricity generation. Once I saw a UPS fail, and same thing (can't guarantee backup power to the control systems; can't guarantee safety of the plant) - shut the whole power station down - 6 generation units, offline at once, steam valves opened, furnaces doused, boilers drained. Nearly caused a statewide blackout ! And cost nigh on $1m to get it back up and running.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

One more for the road *non- audio related*

My bro (big silly fella) has the top of the line Merc 700 series AMG sports hybrid. It was sitting at the merc service garage for over 4 months due to a part missing for the battery. Since it's a hybrid the battery requires changing every 7yrs... so guess which car he was driving until then... the Mrs Toyota Fortuna SUV ha!

Then my bro in-law just bought an Audi A6, getting the jitters wondering what the initial service bill is going to be... $$,$$$ at least I told him, so he's counting his pennies...

It was an absolute pleasure to test drive the Honda NSX $460grand! Only the second one to ever sell in Aus, and the first one landed at the same dealership where I bought my CRV. So I just had to... after we drove back into the dealership, three people had to help me get out! Since I have osteo that was half as bad, when you sit in the NSX, your bum is basically on the floor! So getting out of a very low profile NSX with osteo and being 6'3" at 120kg is an absolute joke! Half way through when I managed to get one leg out, I stopped to catch my breath and asked the manager if it had an eject button or some sort of "roll over & exit" button rather than having to climb out of the damn thing... He replied by saying they'll certainly look into it!
Now that's nice

Cheers to Honda!
RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Getting back to audio...

I just checked with my ML dealer whom I ordered the CLX's from, confirmed there will be a price increase around Oct/Nov. For now, they'll keep prices as is.

The initial stock ordered on the Masterpiece line were all sold, except for a few 9A and 11A's. Offering these at a slight discount before the new consignment for 2023... so looks like they'll probably pass the remaining stock down to sub-dealers to further discount as a special offer leading up to X-mas.

That makes sense to pass on old stock to make way for new but prices as of 2023 will be fairly steep. Looks like the luxury tag is set! Let's see how it goes...

Those who are based in the US can probably take advantage of special offers provided by your local dealers to clear certain stock before the price rise. That would be one opportunity I would grab if I was considering to purchase ML stats, well worth the performance!

Cheers, RJ

 

[msimanyi]

Juuuuust coordinated another acquisition with Shawn, beating the increase. 15As in basalt black will eventually make their way to me...

Thanks Shawn!

 

[DaVinci Media]

If anyone wants to beat the price increase, todays the day.

 

[DaVinci Media]

I wanted to comment on what I have learned about replacement panels. This isnt a simple issue. Building these replacement panels is a highly complicated labor-intensive proposition. And there are nearly 100 different panels that have existed over time. The have been able to produce these panels but as the line evolves it becomes more difficult to offer them all. That being said as of today they will take orders for any speaker, at the moment the build backlog is about 6 months. I will comment that really all things considered thats remarkable. What other speaker manufacturer offers replacements on speakers up to 40 years old? And all things considered the price is very reasonable as in most cases the new panel is also including technologies that didnt exist for the original. It has been and continues to be a true commitment to the Matin Logan brand and ideal, as well as the loyal customers that have grown with the company. The world has changed a lot in 40 years, hell its changed a lot the last 3 years, and I believe that Martin Logan will continue to evolve in a way that keeps up their traditions, values and the commitment to its customers.

 

[Robert D]

I wanted to comment on what I have learned about replacement panels. This isnt a simple issue. Building these replacement panels is a highly complicated labor-intensive proposition. And there are nearly 100 different panels that have existed over time. The have been able to produce these panels but as the line evolves it becomes more difficult to offer them all. That being said as of today they will take orders for any speaker, at the moment the build backlog is about 6 months. I will comment that really all things considered thats remarkable. What other speaker manufacturer offers replacements on speakers up to 40 years old? And all things considered the price is very reasonable as in most cases the new panel is also including technologies that didnt exist for the original. It has been and continues to be a true commitment to the Matin Logan brand and ideal, as well as the loyal customers that have grown with the company.

Do we have a definitive answer on which panels they will stop producing? I think owners of the older models want to know so that they can order soon before its too late. Whats the criteria they will use? Is it anything after a certain date?

 

[DaVinci Media]

Do we have a definitive answer on which panels they will stop producing? I think owners of the older models want to know so that they can order soon before its too late. Whats the criteria they will use? Is it anything after a certain date?

As of now there is no official word that they are stopping any. Sorry I just don't have any more information at this time.

 

[amey01]

This isn't a simple issue. Building these replacement panels is a highly complicated labor-intensive proposition. And there are nearly 100 different panels that have existed over time. The have been able to produce these panels but as the line evolves it becomes more difficult to offer them all.

I'm not so sure I understand.

Simple, because the 100 different panels you speak of are all produced in exactly the same way. It is just a matter of different size. The only exception to that I can think of is the CLX bass panel.

Of course - good business practice would have seen these panels produced with common parts and backward compatability and sizes over the years. I'm not sure how we get to over 100 different panels (that's nigh on a different panel for every different model produced - madness!) - but so be it. As I said earlier, they're all exactly the same thing. I'm really not seeing how this is a complex thing.

 

[Racero]

I spoke w/ML’s tech who told me they don’t inventory the older model panels, but build them AFTER they are ordered and paid for. I imagine this will continue.