Unless you're willing to wait a few years until the inflation ends and things come back to earth. If you want something within the next 2 years I'd say buy now.
Another Martin Logan price increase coming August 1st.
- Thread starter DaVinci Media
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This author seems to think the inflation is going to exist for a long time. Good article here describes the situation. The rate we have now certainly can't be sustained for too long, but a rate higher than the usual 2 to 3% is certainly probably a reality.
https://www.newsfromtheperimeter.com/home/2022/6/1/supply-chains-are-never-returning-to-normal
https://www.newsfromtheperimeter.com/home/2022/6/1/supply-chains-are-never-returning-to-normal
@DaVinci Media, if you prefer I DM you about this, just say the word.
Can you disclose what the 15a price is doing?
Can you disclose what the 15a price is doing?
Initially most of us here didn't think that the invasion of Ukraine would affect us... but it did! Not only did it affect the world but also tube suppliers! Lucky enough I bought a full tube replacement for my monoblocks, which was around $900 in March. Now that exact same supplier is charging nearly 2grand for a set of eight KT120's! Bloody crazy 
Since March, prices over here started to go bonkers... fuel, groceries, day to day supplies, even basics like single malt and a decent Shiraz! (My personal basics...
)
Then suddenly covid hits again, really bad this winter and it's tad chilly down unda, atm 1C in Melb. Influenza A, then type B & type C... omicron variant, 18 die of flu alone last week, my fellow countrymen in Colombo are suffering big time, no basics fuel & gas supplies and 5 million people in desperate need of food... and the list goes on. Good on them though, they kicked out the President who was very corrupt and has been convicted of war crimes, I say power to the people!
And here I am wondering if I should upgrade my monoblocks to CJ's top of the line ART108A (160w Class A monoblocks).
As I saw the events unfold, plus the numerous calls I was receiving asking for help... that's when I went into sudden reality check!!! What the heck am I doing, what am I complaining about, do I have any real problems compared to any one of these people in SL... I seriously don't think so!
So, I cancelled my order on those ART amplifiers and took a long hard look at what I've already got, it's brilliant! I've already got 60w Class A monoblocks, so why on earth do I need to spend 65grand for another set of 160w monoblocks... just doesn't make sense. Is it greed, ego or insecurity...? then I realised it's all about reproduced music, after all we want to extract the best from our favourite recordings, and currently that is exactly what my present system is doing!
Ok! Also thanks to the wifey for giving me a few good slaps to take a closer look at myself and be thankful
So my next course of action was to help these people as much as possible in any way I can. Now funding a small church project up north looking after providing meals to kids who's families were affected by SL's economic crisis, such that the parents couldn't earn a living, so their own children were ending up in orphanages where basic meals of milk & bread were being provided. We're not talking about steak with chips and salad on the side with a glass of red here!
Due to this situation it really opened my eyes! If I had gone ahead with that ART amp purchase, not only would I have been absolutely miserable but also lost respect from the wifey...
Those Art amps are 50grand $USD so by the time it lands in Aus, with customs, duty plus shipping costs about 70grand $AUD all up. That's like committing a crime knowing that my fellow mates in SL are struggling to make ends meet.
Music is a very important part of my life, it helps to unwind, relax from a hard day's work, it delivers all the emotions you need and most of all it's a form of therapy, for me at least! That's when I realised what I've put together is way more than adequate to enjoy the music! Why bother with anything else.
For those of you out there thinking about upgrading and perhaps could afford a few extra spend without going overboard, plan it out carefully and make wise decisions. Don't just dump money for the sake of it knowing thst you're going to regret it sooner or later. After all, what's the point in upgrading if you're not going to be truly enjoying it!
I just checked on the prices on the Masterpiece line, dam! They start at 11grand and go all the way up to 160grand! Talk about disposable income... I think we'll never see those competitive prices compared to other markets like Spore or the US... these are now considered luxury items! Where CJ is concerned, forget it! Their entry level gear starts at 15grand... once again lucky enough I put together all this gear and finalised on the existing LP series monoblocks only three years ago. Now, these monoblocks are obsolete! The new ones are available at 50grand! Hoorah!
I'm very grateful for what I've achieved and put together, and I'm sure many of you feel the same way with your personal reference systems... Now, just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
Since March, prices over here started to go bonkers... fuel, groceries, day to day supplies, even basics like single malt and a decent Shiraz! (My personal basics...
)Then suddenly covid hits again, really bad this winter and it's tad chilly down unda, atm 1C in Melb. Influenza A, then type B & type C... omicron variant, 18 die of flu alone last week, my fellow countrymen in Colombo are suffering big time, no basics fuel & gas supplies and 5 million people in desperate need of food... and the list goes on. Good on them though, they kicked out the President who was very corrupt and has been convicted of war crimes, I say power to the people!
And here I am wondering if I should upgrade my monoblocks to CJ's top of the line ART108A (160w Class A monoblocks).
As I saw the events unfold, plus the numerous calls I was receiving asking for help... that's when I went into sudden reality check!!! What the heck am I doing, what am I complaining about, do I have any real problems compared to any one of these people in SL... I seriously don't think so!
So, I cancelled my order on those ART amplifiers and took a long hard look at what I've already got, it's brilliant! I've already got 60w Class A monoblocks, so why on earth do I need to spend 65grand for another set of 160w monoblocks... just doesn't make sense. Is it greed, ego or insecurity...? then I realised it's all about reproduced music, after all we want to extract the best from our favourite recordings, and currently that is exactly what my present system is doing!
Ok! Also thanks to the wifey for giving me a few good slaps to take a closer look at myself and be thankful
So my next course of action was to help these people as much as possible in any way I can. Now funding a small church project up north looking after providing meals to kids who's families were affected by SL's economic crisis, such that the parents couldn't earn a living, so their own children were ending up in orphanages where basic meals of milk & bread were being provided. We're not talking about steak with chips and salad on the side with a glass of red here!Due to this situation it really opened my eyes! If I had gone ahead with that ART amp purchase, not only would I have been absolutely miserable but also lost respect from the wifey...
Those Art amps are 50grand $USD so by the time it lands in Aus, with customs, duty plus shipping costs about 70grand $AUD all up. That's like committing a crime knowing that my fellow mates in SL are struggling to make ends meet.
Music is a very important part of my life, it helps to unwind, relax from a hard day's work, it delivers all the emotions you need and most of all it's a form of therapy, for me at least! That's when I realised what I've put together is way more than adequate to enjoy the music! Why bother with anything else.
For those of you out there thinking about upgrading and perhaps could afford a few extra spend without going overboard, plan it out carefully and make wise decisions. Don't just dump money for the sake of it knowing thst you're going to regret it sooner or later. After all, what's the point in upgrading if you're not going to be truly enjoying it!
I just checked on the prices on the Masterpiece line, dam! They start at 11grand and go all the way up to 160grand! Talk about disposable income... I think we'll never see those competitive prices compared to other markets like Spore or the US... these are now considered luxury items! Where CJ is concerned, forget it! Their entry level gear starts at 15grand... once again lucky enough I put together all this gear and finalised on the existing LP series monoblocks only three years ago. Now, these monoblocks are obsolete! The new ones are available at 50grand! Hoorah!
I'm very grateful for what I've achieved and put together, and I'm sure many of you feel the same way with your personal reference systems... Now, just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
MisterB
Well-known member
This is great advice! Just went through a bit of a rationalization activity myself. I was on the fence about upgrading my 11's to 13's or 15's and was tentatively planning for early next year. But, I had told myself if ML announced a price increase this year, I was going to do it this year. Well, here we are...
But the more I thought about it, the more anxious I got about actually doing it. Would it be worth it? Would they be better? Might they be worse? Even trading in my 11's, it's a significant amount of cash to shell out, especially if I picked the 15's. Would the 13's be enough of an upgrade to justify the incremental cost? Would I be able to utilize 15's to their full potential in my space to justify the even greater cost? The Masterpiece lineup has been around for over 6 years now. Will new models be coming out in the next 1 - 2 years? Too many unknowns that were just stressing me out.
So I took a hard look at my system to really identify what I felt was lacking with my 11's. Not a whole lot honestly. I'd like maybe a bit more mid-bass punch and a little more extension. I chatted with the awesome guys at my local shop and they suggested I keep my 11's and add a pair of BF210's. I think that was spot on advice. The weakest link in my system are my subs, especially when I'm using my system for movies. So BF210's totally make sense. I don't use subs currently for 2-channel, so I think running a pair of 210's in stereo could add a whole new dimension to the music and add what I feel is lacking now with just my 11's. And then for TV and movies, they will give me a significantly better LFE experience. Seems like a win/win to me, and is likely the path I'll end up taking.
Good advice from your local shop!
When setup correctly, you will probably find yourself using the subs for 2 channel music. I found a really big increase in dynamics by adding subs in a very controlled manner. Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon never sounded better.
Steelhead
Well-known member
Electrostatics have always been expensive per se but like most listeners here they also can be mesmerizing and addictive. (right)?
I would jump if your even considering new Martin Logan before the price increase. You simply just cannot do better than dealing with Shawn. He was great to deal with long distance when I went from Summits to the 15a's.
I was and could be happy with the Summits before going to the 15a's and the only reason I made the jump was due to a house sale during the boom market. However the 15a's are a jump up in performance and the bass articulation and definition is incredible.
I made the move right at the wire before the last increase and glad I did. If you are considering upgrading I would contact Shawn and like the Nike commercial Just Do It.
Happy listening.
I would jump if your even considering new Martin Logan before the price increase. You simply just cannot do better than dealing with Shawn. He was great to deal with long distance when I went from Summits to the 15a's.
I was and could be happy with the Summits before going to the 15a's and the only reason I made the jump was due to a house sale during the boom market. However the 15a's are a jump up in performance and the bass articulation and definition is incredible.
I made the move right at the wire before the last increase and glad I did. If you are considering upgrading I would contact Shawn and like the Nike commercial Just Do It.
Happy listening.
Yes agreed, going from Summits to Ren15A's is a significant improvement, simply different line up all together. Whereas going from the 11A to 13A not so much as compared to the 15A, these are within the Masterpiece series.
When I first had the Ethos, going up to the Montis was nearly there... then with the Summit-X it was much more noticeable. So, as mentioned above and carefully though out by his dealer shop, going from 11A to 13A, he might as well keep the 11A and add those subs. There would be an overall improvement without a doubt. In the two channel setuo and HT.
Taking into consideration the Ren15a's is shifting several gears altogether! It's like going from a turbocharge to super charge twin motors- greater dynamics, speed, articulation and tremendous torque. Hence, the amplifiers have to also match and the room factor plays a big role hear. Otherwise it will be like listening to a boom-box in a cupboard!
The Ren15a's are capable of serious LF levels and detail, they require serious amplification to drive the stats properly otherwise they're not at optimal performance.
I've auditioned the Masterpiece line up at length, and ended up with the Ren15a's being on my short list from a top of 5 other speakers, ended up with CLX's.
At the time the Ren15a's were driven with Pass Labs XA160.8's (160w Class A monoblocks) and on another occasion by CJ's ART150 (150w Class AB tube power amp), it was superb! Equally well was the room, it was very well treated with ample space that's required to accommodate the dual-force bass drivers in the 15A's. These things need the extra space, nearly the same amount of given distance parameters as the Neoliths.
BTW, the Neoliths were also demoed in the same room, so this was very large!
Hence, upgrading gear is not just about the components, speakers etc., it will also involve the room's characteristics especially when larger speakers are being considered.
All the elements of the system have to fit in nicely, only then will that total synergy take place. If not, it will end up being half-baked! Just my 50cts worth...
Cheers, RJ
When I first had the Ethos, going up to the Montis was nearly there... then with the Summit-X it was much more noticeable. So, as mentioned above and carefully though out by his dealer shop, going from 11A to 13A, he might as well keep the 11A and add those subs. There would be an overall improvement without a doubt. In the two channel setuo and HT.
Taking into consideration the Ren15a's is shifting several gears altogether! It's like going from a turbocharge to super charge twin motors- greater dynamics, speed, articulation and tremendous torque. Hence, the amplifiers have to also match and the room factor plays a big role hear. Otherwise it will be like listening to a boom-box in a cupboard!
The Ren15a's are capable of serious LF levels and detail, they require serious amplification to drive the stats properly otherwise they're not at optimal performance.
I've auditioned the Masterpiece line up at length, and ended up with the Ren15a's being on my short list from a top of 5 other speakers, ended up with CLX's.
At the time the Ren15a's were driven with Pass Labs XA160.8's (160w Class A monoblocks) and on another occasion by CJ's ART150 (150w Class AB tube power amp), it was superb! Equally well was the room, it was very well treated with ample space that's required to accommodate the dual-force bass drivers in the 15A's. These things need the extra space, nearly the same amount of given distance parameters as the Neoliths.
BTW, the Neoliths were also demoed in the same room, so this was very large!
Hence, upgrading gear is not just about the components, speakers etc., it will also involve the room's characteristics especially when larger speakers are being considered.
All the elements of the system have to fit in nicely, only then will that total synergy take place. If not, it will end up being half-baked! Just my 50cts worth...
Cheers, RJ
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AlmostHome
Well-known member
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Well put sir, or ma'am.
Smart choice! Very logical and cost effective. I use my BF 210 when listening to music and it sounds great. Blends perfect.
cheers mate!
Noticed that you have Wadia gear. Back in the day, I used a Wadia Transport, Meitner DAC with a Meridian clock, three chassis digital system with my Apogee Diva's and CJ's Premier 8A monoblocks partnered with the ART preamp, it was a legendary sound! However, at times, the Wadia was just as good on its own... held quite well and seemed a tad purer without all the additional digital gadgets. The Meitner and Meridian worked well together but on certain occasions when I had to demo for customers at a rush, I would use just the Wadia and it played beautifully!
Have a good one, and most of all enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
Just wondering, if there is a big rush for a lot of people to buy the speakers, is there enough supply to last out? Will ML honor the original sale price when something is on back order? I expect yes.
Steelhead
Well-known member
Agree
I have never heard CLX's but a pair of those with subwoofers must be incredible
I am a tube lover and realize tubes and stats are tough to make it a happy marriage. I have used CJ premier 12's with the summits and now have Manley 100/200's monoblocks on the 15 panels. 180 per channel in push pull and over a 100 in triode. I still have the ok boomer rock gene and like to listen around 90-95 and sometimes 102-105 and the Manleys can push it without strain to this listener.
The 15's are a final purchase for this guy and what a pleasure to listen to. I have modified Klipsch LaScala's, a Fisher 500C, and Esoteric X03 and JVC QLY5F for a second system but it blocked the fireplace and the wife banished it into the basement and I have them in my mancave. Using Esoteric K01, Teac X2000, SOTA Cosmos series VI with a Graham phantom III arm and a Nakamichi ZX7 refurbed by Willy. Happy Camper here as a dedicated mancave to listen.
Happy spinning!!!!
Stefan_DR3
Well-known member
They will absolutely honor price if you place your order before August 1, but don't expect to take delivery for some time.
I am not surprised at these price increases. The ESL/Masterpiece series are made in one of Canada's most expensive cities, not some backwoods town.
The price certainly didn't go down when production shifted from the US.
Nice one Steelhead.
Speaking of Manley Labs, I used to be one of their prime owners back in the day... mostly back then it was older VTL gear and after 93/94 the product orders I got, later honoured the Manley Labs badge. I still think Eve Anne Manley (President Manley Labs) is one of the greatest audio people to deal with. Her customer service is outstanding! Wish there were many more like her. After the VTL & Manley split... I used only VTL preamps for a short while and it was mostly Manley and CJ gear. Conrad- Johnson has been a house hold name since I was 15! Lew Johnson and Ed Deitmier head of service, were my goto people, they were awesome! So I've always owned, sold and dealt with CJ amplification more than any other brand, and many others have come & gone!
Average tube amplifiers can't drive stats properly and this is where most think that SS designs are better on stats. However, CJ, ARC, VTL, Manley, VAC and Lamm aren't average! They're some of the very best tube amps money can buy, including Aries Ceret. These are made with rock solid power supplies and discrete components/ circuits, delivering very high current and stable voltage. Those elements put together is what defines a SOTA tube designed amplifier, and when you find the right one to drive stats, it will do so with full grip and control. I got my LP125M's modded to high bias in Class A delivering 60w. Anything above 80w it switches into Class AB capable of delivering 150w. The amazing thing is, these monoblocks drive my CLX's to full potential and it's no where near 60w... just about 10w the most. Even on the loudest passages, it's around 40-45w. The human ear cannot tolerate 100s of watts. And this is not rock concert levels, this is domestic hifi! If we continuously listen at over 100w we basically go deaf! So people boasting about their 1000w amplfiers is all rubbish!
It's nothing to do with watts and power at all. What is required is high current delivered from the amplifiers power supplies and the high capacity of stable voltage, this is what drives stats and difficult loads, not watts.
These mods took me over two years to complete, and it's absolutely marvellous! I was nearly finalising on CJ's newest Class A 160w monoblocks the ART108A's (50grand a pair limited edition) but I cancelled my order. After having done specific mods on my existing amplifiers and upgrading every piece of audio equipment to the full SE version of what CJ offers, I thought to myself, why on earth do I need to spend unnecessarily on new amps when I've already got the ones I've always wanted... and that's all she wrote!
Of course the way I see it, would be a sheer crime to spend 50grand on amps, when there are others around me who are struggling to make ends meet. So my level of ethics and conscious are high, I must remain aware of my surroundings and be grateful for what I have.
Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
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That's the very same thing that happened with Quad ESL's. As soon as Peter Walker, the ESL legend, was no more... IAG took over and shifted production to China. We all (Quad owners) naturally thought, well there goes quality control down the drain, hence prices should be much cheaper... and it was clearly not the case! Prices went up, in fact through the roof and the quality is awful! After the Quad ESL 57 & 63's I had, with a few minor glitches they still kept going well over the 10yr mark. Whereas, with the new ones, 989, 2905's and 2912's, absolute disaster! They didn't even last the warranty! Anyway, don't want to derail here, as this is a whole ugly story.
The point I'm trying to make is that ML hasn't sold the business to some off shore giant, who doesn't have a clue in ESL technology and its attributes. Therefore, I firmly believe that ML are still committed to their ESL line in every way and are truly passionate about what they do in making the world's finest stats. They've built such a strong brand in ESL technology, so why ruin it?
Shifting production to Canada and being owned by Anthem is ok I guess, just as long as those guys understand the heritage behind the ML badge.
As soon as greed and personal power take over, this is where things get ugly... they become interested in only moving boxes, and large shipments of boxes! They're not truly passionate about the ESL technology nor the loyal customer base who've been with them for decades! And this maties is the biggest downfall of corporate greed. Also one of the reasons why I closed my dealership. It's all over the world but hopefully it hasn't crept into ML as yet... I truly hope not!
Having said that, I really don't mind that ML is now made in Canada, as long as the high performance and quality remains the same. Price alone doesn't dictate the quality & performance factor... It's much more than that!
Cheers, RJ
I agree 100%. The only sign to me that things might be changing was when they discontinued the CLX model. I guess there is no sign of them bringing back a similar panel? That line seems to be dead now.That's the very same thing that happened with Quad ESL's. As soon as Peter Walker, the ESL legend, was no more... IAG took over and shifted production to China. We all (Quad owners) naturally thought, well there goes quality control down the drain, hence prices should be much cheaper... and it was clearly not the case! Prices went up, in fact through the roof and the quality is awful! After the Quad ESL 57 & 63's I had, with a few minor glitches they still kept going well over the 10yr mark. Whereas, with the new ones, 989, 2905's and 2912's, absolute disaster! They didn't even last the warranty! Anyway, don't want to derail here, as this is a whole ugly story.
The point I'm trying to make is that ML hasn't sold the business to some off shore giant, who doesn't have a clue in ESL technology and its attributes. Therefore, I firmly believe that ML are still committed to their ESL line in every way and are truly passionate about what they do in making the world's finest stats. They've built such a strong brand in ESL technology, so why ruin it?
Shifting production to Canada and being owned by Anthem is ok I guess, just as long as those guys understand the heritage behind the ML badge.
As soon as greed and personal power take over, this is where things get ugly... they become interested in only moving boxes, and large shipments of boxes! They're not truly passionate about the ESL technology nor the loyal customer base who've been with them for decades! And this maties is the biggest downfall of corporate greed. Also one of the reasons why I closed my dealership. It's all over the world but hopefully it hasn't crept into ML as yet... I truly hope not!
Having said that, I really don't mind that ML is now made in Canada, as long as the high performance and quality remains the same. Price alone doesn't dictate the quality & performance factor... It's much more than that!
Cheers, RJ
I just hope that they continue to produce replacement panels for a long time. Shawn said they will no longer make their earlier ones, but we dont know exactly what that means.
Quality now seems good. Im fairly impressed with my new BF 210 and Focus center channel. The only problem I had was a lose terminal on the Focus, and ML took the speaker back and gave me a new one. It was bad out of the box.
Steelhead
Well-known member
Hey bigdog,
Yes, we had a fanboy club for EveAnna in Alaska as two in our nerdy audio group had stingray integrated amps and we were bugging her to come to Alaska and rock with us.
It was cj gear that absolutely ruined me for life with tube bliss. I was picking up two brand new Hafler 500's (way back when they were made in the US) to power my Infinity 4.5's and the owner of the store was a great guy. I went in to pick them up and Billy Joel was playing into some small DCM time window speakers (and I have a small speaker - small sound bias) and although I am not a big Joel fan I just could not believe how beautiful he sounded and the piano was to die for. I was amazed at how good it sounded. The owner said oh yeah that's the best stuff I have in the store it was conrad johnson and probably a pv1/m55 or whatever their first or damn near it gear was. Two little gold/champagne boxes and just an on off switch and little red light That demo stayed etched in my mind until I finally could afford tube gear in the 90's.
I was saving for NeoClassic 500's when I saw the ad for the used 100/200's at a very significant savings and jumped on them. I had them sent to Manley a couple of months ago for a refurb and agree that their customer service is first class. They are just a great company in every respect. EveAnna said that the 100/200's were her home amp for a number of years and she has a soft spot for 5881's. I was harassing her to come to Americade in Lake George NY as she is a biker but she is too busy in Chino. Would love to visit the factory and bug those cats.
Happy listening!!!!!
amey01
Well-known member
To be fair - how long was there between when they discontinued the CLS and introduced the CLX?
You, me and us all. The panels are a consumable item as far as I am concerned. If they stop making panels, the speakers are useless within a period of time. Whatever that may be. That is, forced obsolescence.
Needing new panels is part of the set of compromises we make by purchasing ES panels.
The availability of those panels (and therefore the serviceability of the speakers) is a conscious decision made by ML.
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