Advice on upgrading to an external DAC for music listening from a Sonos Connect

[Robert D]

I see that Tidal offers Atmos tracks. I don't think it's possible to use the Lumin to stream atmos unless I output the digital to my receiver, and then I'm not even using the high quality DAC in the player. Is that right?

I figure just continue to use my Apple tv to listen to atmos music and the Lumin for higher quality stereo? The Lumin player has just stereo analog output.

Looking forward to hearing it.

 

[msimanyi]

I don't recall Lumin products processing Atmos. If you run the digital through the receiver, you've bypassed the Lumin DAC.

Consider, though, what Atmos is used for. My interpretation is it's used to convey overhead motion in soundtracks. For that, I'm sure, it's great. (I haven't yet installed Atmos due to the difficulties in my home. Vaulted ceilings with 6" planks look great, but don't lend themselves to retrofitting speakers very easily.)

But for music? Unless they're flinging the Oboe player overhead while recording...

That leaves you with multi-channel recordings. There aren't a lot of those*, but if you can find them you'll definitely want to use the receiver to decode those.

Edited to add: be sure to run it in for a good number of hours before listening critically. On the T2, things were noticeably improved after the first 100 hours and continued to improve for probably 200+ hours. And never power off a DAC. They really need to stay on full time for peak performance.



* At least not for the type of music I usually play. If you listen to orchestral pieces though, they might be prevalent.

 

[Robert D]

I don't recall Lumin products processing Atmos. If you run the digital through the receiver, you've bypassed the Lumin DAC.

Consider, though, what Atmos is used for. My interpretation is it's used to convey overhead motion in soundtracks. For that, I'm sure, it's great. (I haven't yet installed Atmos due to the difficulties in my home. Vaulted ceilings with 6" planks look great, but don't lend themselves to retrofitting speakers very easily.)

But for music? Unless they're flinging the Oboe player overhead while recording...

That leaves you with multi-channel recordings. There aren't a lot of those*, but if you can find them you'll definitely want to use the receiver to decode those.

Edited to add: be sure to run it in for a good number of hours before listening critically. On the T2, things were noticeably improved after the first 100 hours and continued to improve for probably 200+ hours. And never power off a DAC. They really need to stay on full time for peak performance.



* At least not for the type of music I usually play. If you listen to orchestral pieces though, they might be prevalent.

Didn't realize they need time to break in, like speakers. I wonder what the science is behind that? Wow, so you never turn the unit off and put it in standby? Does it go into some sort of standby on its own?

Do you have your's connected directly to your amp or is it running through a pre-amp and then to your amp? I'm thinking keeping the pathway shorter by going directly to the amp will sound better. The amp has balanced connections and my receiver only has rca. That might affect sound some too. I plan on trying both ways.

 

[Robert D]

My Aragon 2 channel amp has both rca and balanced input plugs. I should be able to wire the Lumin player to it direct through the balanced and also use the rca plugs to input from my receiver? I don't think its a problem as long as I don't try to input signals from both at the same time. I've never tried it. Up to now I've always just used the rca. I have the plug caps attached to the balanced inputs now.

Just came back to edit. I had a brain fart because now I realize running right to the amp would not allow me to use my BF 210 sub. Guess I'd have to find some kind of splitter to split the signal from the lumin into 2 paths. One for the amp and the other for the sub. I'd also lose my crossover setting on my mains, which does sound better with my sub.

Probably just easiest to just use the rca through the receiver and be done with it.

 

[msimanyi]

You can run a set of jumper speaker wires from your speakers to the BF210 speaker-level inputs. Super easy!

I don't turn off any DAC. When I first started exploring separate DACs, I found a claim they should be left on. I think that was from Mike Moffat of Schiit.

I was skeptical, so I searched on it and sure enough, there were a number of engineering papers showing how DACs perform basically horribly for the first hour after they're powered on, then improve dramatically over the next six hours, and hit peak stability around 24 hours.

Yep - I leave the T2 on all the time.

I run mine through a Schiit Freya+, largely because I run computer audio through a lesser DAC and want to be able to switch inputs. Plus I have to admit, exploring tube rolling options is a hoot and the Freya+ responds nicely to good glass.

 

[Robert D]

You can run a set of jumper speaker wires from your speakers to the BF210 speaker-level inputs. Super easy!

I don't turn off any DAC. When I first started exploring separate DACs, I found a claim they should be left on. I think that was from Mike Moffat of Schiit.

I was skeptical, so I searched on it and sure enough, there were a number of engineering papers showing how DACs perform basically horribly for the first hour after they're powered on, then improve dramatically over the next six hours, and hit peak stability around 24 hours.

Yep - I leave the T2 on all the time.

I run mine through a Schiit Freya+, largely because I run computer audio through a lesser DAC and want to be able to switch inputs. Plus I have to admit, exploring tube rolling options is a hoot and the Freya+ responds nicely to good glass.

So I guess leaving it on doesn't lessen the lifespan of it? Worried it will be hard on everything including the power supply. I went ahead and got the external power supply for it too. They installed the kit in it and I just plug it in.

How many years has yours been running?

 

[msimanyi]

It's been on about a year now.

With computers, I have our (small) office leave them on all the time. They are set to reduce power and sleep the monitors, but I've read that the most common cause of failure for computers is from power cycles.

These streamers are just a dedicated computer. Same with DACs. I have one DAC that has been on non-stop for about four years now and doesn't show any signs of trouble, and it's not an expensive product. (I think it was around $700.)

Every time you trip the power switch, something unstable most likely comes flying through the circuits...

 

[Robert D]

It's been on about a year now.

With computers, I have our (small) office leave them on all the time. They are set to reduce power and sleep the monitors, but I've read that the most common cause of failure for computers is from power cycles.

These streamers are just a dedicated computer. Same with DACs. I have one DAC that has been on non-stop for about four years now and doesn't show any signs of trouble, and it's not an expensive product. (I think it was around $700.)

Every time you trip the power switch, something unstable most likely comes flying through the circuits...

Ok. If it takes 24 hrs to peak performance then I'll leave it on. I wonder if the manual talks about it. The player doesn't go into a standby mode?

 

[msimanyi]

I don't recall seeing that in Lumin's documents.

My T2 doesn't go into standby, but that's probably because I have the "Idle Sleep" option set to Never. The other options are 15 minutes and 1 hour. I haven't tested Idle Sleep to see if alters sound quality, but it's possible it keeps the core DAC circuits properly powered so reproduction quality isn't affected.

This link might help: DACs need to be warmed up for a while. Fact or Fiction?

Unfortunately the link in message 7 of that thread seems to be dead now, but that may have been the technical paper I read in 2020.

 

[Robert D]

I don't recall seeing that in Lumin's documents.

My T2 doesn't go into standby, but that's probably because I have the "Idle Sleep" option set to Never. The other options are 15 minutes and 1 hour. I haven't tested Idle Sleep to see if alters sound quality, but it's possible it keeps the core DAC circuits properly powered so reproduction quality isn't affected.

This link might help: DACs need to be warmed up for a while. Fact or Fiction?

Unfortunately the link in message 7 of that thread seems to be dead now, but that may have been the technical paper I read in 2020.

Thanks. I will want to try out the idle. I may call Upscale Audio and ask them about it. The guy I dealt with was good.

 

[Robert D]

Just found this in the Lumin manual.

"
Powering on
RUNNING-IN
LUMIN performs at its best after a running-in period (otherwise known as burn-in or break-in).

The duration can vary depending on the internal components, but under some conditions many users report that the sound continues to improve for a few weeks (200+ hours of playback).

Tips

• Using the LUMIN app you can create a mixed Playlist of different formats. Using music with different sample rates will utilise more of the internal componentry.
• You can put a mixed playlist on repeat and leave playing 24/7.
• During this time, it is best to leave cables connected to your other equipment, but the volume can be off on amplifiers.
• Even after the initial running-in period, leaving the system switched on can help provide a more consistent performance, especially just after starting."

So there it touches on the idea of leaving it turned on for an extended period of time. I read that thread you posted and it is good.

 

[Robert D]

LUMIN - Running-in (luminmusic.com)

 

[Robert D]

I need to find out more about that idle mode it goes into. Like you said, maybe it keeps the unit somewhat warmed up and then it would reach optimum performance in a rather fast time frame.

 

[Robert D]

Playing the Lumin D2 right now. It's been powered on now for about 6 hours. I must say that it definitely sounds ALOT better than when I first played it. More bass now, and before it warned up it sounded kinda flat. I was a bit worried I had wasted money on it because the Sonos sounded better.

Well now, wow! Sounds awesome. I think the manual said it takes about 200 hours of playing to break in fully. I'm going to just leave it turned on all of the time like suggested. I also got the upgraded external power supply. Upscale Audio is nice because they install it for you. All I had to do was plug it in!

 

[Robert D]

To leave on or not to leave on? Some thoughts here.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31529-do-you-leave-your-dac-powered-on-all-the-time/

 

[amey01]

To leave on or not to leave on? Some thoughts here.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31529-do-you-leave-your-dac-powered-on-all-the-time/

I switch all my stuff off. It's easier on the electronics, and easier on the environment.

I find it all sounds pretty good after about 5 minutes of power, and sounds 100% after half an hour or so. If I am listening seriously, I turn it all on about 1/2 hour before I listen. Simple stuff.

 

[Robert D]

I switch all my stuff off. It's easier on the electronics, and easier on the environment.

I find it all sounds pretty good after about 5 minutes of power, and sounds 100% after half an hour or so. If I am listening seriously, I turn it all on about 1/2 hour before I listen. Simple stuff.

I turned the player off yesterday and then hours later played it again. It did sound worse after that. Similar to how it did when I first used it when brand new. It seemed to take about 30 minutes to sound better, but I'm not sure if it was at its peak.

It is true that many computers run 24/7. Since the player doesn't produce heat, perhaps it really doesn't wear it out. My initial thought was to turn it off, but there are many users that do not. Many have been running on now for years.

I need to call Upscale Audio and get their feedback.

 

[msimanyi]

Let us know what they say! (I'm betting they suggest to just leave it on...)

 

[BDH55]

I turned the player off yesterday and then hours later played it again. It did sound worse after that. Similar to how it did when I first used it when brand new. It seemed to take about 30 minutes to sound better, but I'm not sure if it was at its peak.

It is true that many computers run 24/7. Since the player doesn't produce heat, perhaps it really doesn't wear it out. My initial thought was to turn it off, but there are many users that do not. Many have been running on now for years.

I need to call Upscale Audio and get their feedback.

My best friend has a EE out of Purdue and held a CTO position at one of the well known Silicon Valley firms..... his general advice was to leave electronics on. His reasoning was the heat shock the components go thru as they have to heat up when you turn things on, and cool down once you turn things off, stresses them which ultimately causes a failure. Of course this advice was given to me probably two decades ago so whether it still applies with todays equipment, I can't answer...

All that said... in general, I still turn my stuff off. The reason I said 'in general' is for some reason this Winter we've had a really hard time keeping the AV room at a reasonable temperature, so I've been leaving my Para JC-1 mono blocks on. Probably not very efficient using them as space heaters, but I've been using my room more anyway so they are always ready to go...

 

[Robert D]

I wonder if being in standby keeps it warmed up somewhat, at least more than flipping the switch and turning it off all of the way?