Dark Side of the Moon Bass issues

Just curious if anyone has noticed this...

Whenever I play DSOM, whether it be on vinyl, SACD or CD (yes, I have too many copies of this...) There seems to be this out of phase rumbling and grumbling throughout the record that is very low and not in sync with the rest of the music.

I didn't notice this until I got the Descent and then a second one.

I have no other record in my collection that does this.

Any thoughts or ideas....

Thanks!

Is this before, during, or after the Hookah??? LOL

Seriously...I will have to listen to my copies to see if I hear anything. I see you said throughout, but is there any particular place or cut that stands out?

As soon as I get done with the issue, I'll listen to it again and note the exact spots in the disc.

Weird.

I can tell you my Apogee Stages HATED the heartbeat intro it would give them fits and they did not like subsonic tones

Hi Jeff,

How funny you should start this post.

Last night, I listened to the Japanese SACD and did not note any bass anamolies. Enjoyed the hell out of it actually and was again reminded why this recording is still revered after 30 some plus years.

I did note that RW, or whoever did the mastering, used a bit of Q sound in certain places.

I also must admit that I have the Summit's 25 and 50hz controls set to not accentuate any mid / deep bass other than what I believe is on the CD.

Not to say you do but I mention it as a point of information.

GG

PS The reason you may be having this issue, versus others on this forum, is the resolving power of your system. If you do "bookmark" the specific sections, please use the digital version so you can note the exact times where these anamolies occur. I'll check it out.

Will do. It's the only disc in my collection that does it.
Very bizarre.

Ill play it tonight again. Report back !:music:

Okay, well since you asked......I listen to DSOTM every time I demo my system. Which is quite often since the CLXs arrived. As you know, our systems are somewhat similar. I actually could not do the dual Descent i subs. I tried it and most likely it was the room but bottom line is the bass was muddy with two subs. At least with my 5.1 system when the Descent i was dialed in to the CLXs, I had nice tight bass with no dullness or boominess. Since dialing in the Descent i I have had no bass issues at all. Now remember my system is a 5.1 system and if I remember right....yours is two channel. But I just listened to DSOTM a few minutes ago and I specifically was listening for any bass issues. I heard no bass issues on my system, but again I was listening to the MCH version in SACD. I also have the DVDA version, regular CD and the vinyl version. The DVDA is 4.1 surround sound, mixed off the Quad sound and the CD and vinyl versions...well I always end up listening to them in McCormack ARM which is simulated 5.1 surround. Bottom line everything sounds great with no bass issues, so the only thing that I would venture a guess at, is that you may be getting too much bass from the two Descent i subs, maybe some kind of sub sound conflict and then you add in the CLXs bass which is descent and may also be adding to this issue. I will look and see where you post the exact times on the CD where the issues appear, but unless I re-configure my system into a 2 channel, I a betting that I will not be avle to reporduce your issues. But hey, maybe you can try to reconfigure your system into a 5.1 and see if that fixes your issues.

JMAUSGP said:

Okay, well since you asked......I listen to DSOTM every time I demo my system. Which is quite often since the CLXs arrived. As you know, our systems are somewhat similar. I actually could not do the dual Descent i subs. I tried it and most likely it was the room but bottom line is the bass was muddy with two subs. At least with my 5.1 system when the Descent i was dialed in to the CLXs, I had nice tight bass with no dullness or boominess. Since dialing in the Descent i I have had no bass issues at all. Now remember my system is a 5.1 system and if I remember right....yours is two channel. But I just listened to DSOTM a few minutes ago and I specifically was listening for any bass issues. I heard no bass issues on my system, but again I was listening to the MCH version in SACD. I also have the DVDA version, regular CD and the vinyl version. The DVDA is 4.1 surround sound, mixed off the Quad sound and the CD and vinyl versions...well I always end up listening to them in McCormack ARM which is simulated 5.1 surround. Bottom line everything sounds great with no bass issues, so the only thing that I would venture a guess at, is that you may be getting too much bass from the two Descent i subs, maybe some kind of sub sound conflict and then you add in the CLXs bass which is descent and may also be adding to this issue. I will look and see where you post the exact times on the CD where the issues appear, but unless I re-configure my system into a 2 channel, I a betting that I will not be avle to reporduce your issues. But hey, maybe you can try to reconfigure your system into a 5.1 and see if that fixes your issues.

Click to expand...

A: Don't want a 5.1 system
B: I get it with one sub or two
C: I know how to set my system up and I had my work checked by someone from ML that said "I had the best CLX sound he'd ever heard"
D: DSOM is the only disc this happens on.
E: I'm not ruling out something really bizarre.

JMAUSGP said:

, but again I was listening to the MCH version in SACD. I also have the DVDA version, regular CD and the vinyl version. The DVDA is 4.1 surround sound, mixed off the Quad sound and the CD and vinyl versions...well I always end up listening to them in McCormack ARM which is simulated 5.1 surround.

Click to expand...

All versions you listed you listen to using ARM? But you listened to the SACD MCH layer? Just wanted to make sure.

And this was with your McCormack player?

tonepub said:

There seems to be this out of phase rumbling and grumbling throughout the record that is very low and not in sync with the rest of the music.

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Very low in frequency or very low in volume? Is it infrasonic? can it be measured?

very low in frequency...

Sounds kind of like the sound you hear in your house when a large truck rumbles by.

tonepub said:

very low in frequency...

Sounds kind of like the sound you hear in your house when a large truck rumbles by.

Click to expand...

I believe I know what you are talking about..... I have the SACD - and to me it seems like there are some pretty low frequencies at certain times in certain songs. In any case... to me - on that SACD - the bass seems 'different'. I'm not saying it is 'bad' - but different in the sense that sometimes it just comes in at certain points of the song - and it is not in your face bass - just seems to be lower in frequency. I think on 'Us and Them' maybe?? I like it though...

Yeah - I have a Descent and within a few secs I knew. It is pretty odd. I am listening to it now.

Tis the SACD version I'm listening to, but around 41 seconds into Breathe onwards it gets very strange.

It's not hard to hear - it's as clear as daylight. It's just there.

EDIT: what a blinking great album this is... long time no listen

Just tried it without the Descent - and while it isn't as obvious it is still pretty obvious. A Summit, Spire or for that matter any hybrid ML will easily reveal it. Non-CLS/CLX sub supplemented systems will probably not, though I could stand corrected here.

I'm out of town, but when I get home, I'll be sure to put on my three copies of DSotM and given them a listen. have it on vinyl, the original CD release (USA) and the new SACD release. I haven't really noticed any sort of "rumble", but then again, I'll admit that I LOVE this record so much that I rarely listen to it "critically". This is one of my favorite discs to just pop in the player, and let it roll, lights dimmed, Scotch in hand, when I want to just unwind and escape...

--Richard

It's pretty bad about 2 mins 30 into Money. In fact, if you wack the Descent settings up you can hear that there is a definate low bass issue in all sorts of places when you can't hear it at normal levels.

US & Them has real issues too.

I have a couple of vinyl pressings from different years so I'll check them out, but right now I don't want to hit stop, if you know what I mean

Where to start? I guess first the DTB300 question about MCH versus ARM circuit on my McCormack MAP-1, the McCormack ARM circuit is selectable on the McCormack MAP-1 pre-amp for use with 2-channel sources such as CD or Phono and it creates a 5.1 experience on a 5.1 system. According to some and IMHO Mr. McCormack has created one of the best ambience enhancement circuits of all time with the ARM circuit on the MAP-1. But I have been into MCH since the 70s, and when I discovered SACD and DVDA in MCH it was dumb luck when I discovered the McCormack ARM circuit which allowed me to listen to all my 2 channel sources in 5.1 surround sound. The McCormack UDP-1 Deluxe Universal Player plays SACD MCH, SACD Stereo, DVD-A, Redbook CD, as well as a few other formats. When listening to DSOTM which is probably once a week, I usually play DSOTM SACD MCH, but I have also played the DVD-A MCH 4.1 version which is a nice change of pace and that was supposedly done off the original Quad masters. Again I was throwing a little humor Jeff's way as I am acutely aware of his distaste for Multi-channel. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I did in fact listen to DSOTM all the way through, in SACD MCH that night and I was listening for any oddities in bass, so I just thought I would throw in that I heard nothing irregular in the bass range on my 5.1 CLX Descent i, again I was just kidding with Jeff. Unfortunately, I have not listened to DSOTM in two channel CD or Vinyl yet, but I was planning on trying that once Jeff responded with the time stamps for where this low bass behavior was particularly obvious. Once I have that, I can listen to those particular passages and see if I can replicate his issues with my CLX Descent i system in two channel setup. I guess I was trying to avoid listening to the whole thing, if there was a particular passage or song that was easy to spot the odd bass behavior that Jeff is referring too then I could reduce the amount of listening discomfort.

Anyway, as for Jeff's response:

A: Don't want a 5.1 system
A: I understand, it was just a little joke on my part
B: I get it with one sub or two
B: Kind of like mayonnaise at Subway. I was just pointing out that I tried to do 2 Descent i subs but for me at least I could not get it to work, it muddied up the sound too much. But I guess that says for you that it is not the fact that you have too many subs, of course some subscribe to the fact that you can never be too rich, too thin, or have too many subs
C: I know how to set my system up and I had my work checked by someone from ML that said "I had the best CLX sound he'd ever heard"
C: I have no doubt of your system set-up and was not trying to say that at all. After listening to DSOTM and not hearing anything out of the ordinary I was just letting you know that I did just listen to it after reading your post and again I was trying to be funny....not enough I guess. And you do realize that your certain ML person has not heard my CLX sound in 5.1, which unarguably there is more to love in 5.1 versus 2.1
D: DSOM is the only disc this happens on.
D: At least so far, or maybe you have played everything you have, I guess I don't know but have you tried Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here? Or Maybe Erich Kunzel Time Warp, or Pink Floyd Animals? Actually I will think of a couple of other Pink Floydish albums that have similar electronic music, maybe it is just something about the DSOTM mix...who knows.
E: I'm not ruling out something really bizarre.
E: I can't believe Ethan didn't jump on this. Just kidding...

If you can give me the time stamps to listen for this Bizarre Bass, I will listen to 2 channel just for you..... No really Jeff as you know you have helped me with several items and if I can replicate your bizarre sound, then maybe we can figure out what is doing it. I can go to 2 channel vinyl and CD but changing out my amp or pre-amp will be a whole lot tougher...But hey, one thing I have learned reading this forum....anything is possible. In fact while I was typing this post several people have joined in the discussion. And it was quiet for so long.....

The two "Time" refs I have supplied are enough to hook you into it JMAUSGP. Enjoy.

The question is WTF is it? Might be worth checking the location of the studios, and if there were/is any motorway (freeway) near. Or is it just a bass guitar in the mix, not being played, but just moved around?

Theories? Maybe it was an enigmatic little plant - the studio engineer thinking when replay systems get good enough, they'll notice it

Gotta say Jeff, well noticed. As Dreamer says, he doesn't critically listen to it, he just enjoys it. But in a sense it's a little bit (if not much) of a spoiler. Now I know it's there, I will always be aware of it. Good talking point though, my brother will be dead impressed.

I'll leave others to do the vinyl assessment as I'm moving onto a bit of pop with Lily Allen's new album.

Yep got it Justin. I will be going home in a couple of hours and so I should be able to get it done in two channel tonight. One idea I had, was that Pink Floyd in general and Gilmore specifically like to use strange sounds in their music. If you get a chance to watch and listen to Gilmore's "On and Island" you will see him find a guy in the street making music with some odd stuff and he invites the guy to play with them at Gdansk Shipyard concert and he does. So your theory about low train vibrations is not out of the possibility as Gilmore at least likes to use all kinds of sound as part of his music. If you listen closely to Wish You Were Here, you can hear elevators, boot steps, corridors, parties and all kinds of electronic synthesizers and I guess that goes for Amused to Death by Roger Waters for that matter.

JMAUSGP said:

I did in fact listen to DSOTM all the way through, in SACD MCH that night and I was listening for any oddities in bass

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Thanks for the ARM lessons But I am familiar with it and the MAP-1. Just curious when you heard or did not hear the low levels that Jeff was talking about. Thanks.

And you do realize that your certain ML person has not heard my CLX sound in 5.1, which unarguably there is more to love in 5.1 versus 2.1

Click to expand...

Sorry IMO I have to disagree with you. MCH (5, 4, or 3 channel) is not always better than 2.1 or 2.0 native or synthesized, as it depends on the recording.