Why does Stereophile not recommend a single Martin Logan speaker?

[amey01]

I have difficulty with the concept of deciding that you want to listen to analog or digital. What I listen to is based upon what format the music I want to listen to is in my collection, as I cannot afford to duplicate all of my music, and in any case I have a lot of stuff that is not available in digital form. So, "why the heck bother" applies when the music I want to listen to is on an LP, not on CD. Conversely, even though I think that analog is superior to digital, I frequently listen to a lot of digital just because of the music.

I'm just a little different - I'm too young for a large vinyl collection.

 

[Bernard]

I'm just a little different - I'm too young for a large vinyl collection.

Okay, that's understandable then. In a sense I envy you as you have only one format to worry about and can concentrate the finances there. I sometimes consider going all digital, but that consideration disappears when I put on the next LP.

 

[User211]

They have been the judge. Granted, I do get a certain allure out of vinyl which is why I have vinyl in my system. But hi-fi it is not. (on my system, anyway).

Yeah, it would be a lot of $$$, but a Dual CS505, good though it is for a budget deck, won't compete with your Marantz. In fact, it just won't perform that well at all. I used to own one. Not good, by any stretch of the imagination.

Why is it, then, that at both the HK and London shows, the predominant source appears to be vinyl? Is is just because a hold load of old gits are the only ones with the money to invest in top $ decks? I think there is a bit more to it than that.

The fact is good vinyl replay needs high tolerance mechnical engineering and exotic materials to work well. And that doesn't come cheap - new anyway. But there's plenty of used stuff that will fit the bill.

Anyway, there's me adding to a thread I started and tried to end... Way of topic, and turning into the old vinyl versus digital debate. Yawn...

 

[Craig]

Ill compare a $1000 analog setup to an iPod, Wadia i170 and a 500 dollar channel islands DAC and take the digital setup any day.

Sorry, digital's come a long way.

I still love analog, but unless I can have really good analog, it's not that compelling.

I tend to agree with Jeff on this. I plan to get back into analog and part of the reason is that I already have a vinyl collection my wife and I would like to hear. The only thing holding us back is the cost. If we're going to do it then we're going to do it right with a high-end table/cartridge and that is expensive. But when analog is done well it takes an even more expensive digital rig to compete with analog. At least that's been my experience.

 

[Craig]

Ill compare a $1000 analog setup to an iPod, Wadia i170 and a 500 dollar channel islands DAC and take the digital setup any day.

Sorry, digital's come a long way.

I still love analog, but unless I can have really good analog, it's not that compelling.

I tend to agree with Jeff on this. I plan to get back into analog and part of the reason is that I already have a vinyl collection my wife and I would like to hear. The only thing holding us back is the cost. If we're going to do it then we're going to do it right with a high-end table/cartridge and that is expensive. But when analog is done well it takes an even more expensive digital rig to compete with analog. At least that's been my experience.

Now back on the topic of Stereopile. It's only a few dollars to subscribe to the rag so I do. However, I read their reviews with a grain of salt since they are obviously heavily dependent on ad revenue vs subscription revenue. The components they review and make their top list are the same ones that pay for ads. Otherwise, it's a worthwhile magazine but not the best and Tonepub is much better and I can read it on my PC while flying.

 

[stereoman]

...
Now back on the topic of Stereopile. It's only a few dollars to subscribe to the rag so I do. However, I read their reviews with a grain of salt since they are obviously heavily dependent on ad revenue vs subscription revenue. The components they review and make their top list are the same ones that pay for ads. Otherwise, it's a worthwhile magazine but not the best and Tonepub is much better and I can read it on my PC while flying.

I've been reading audiophile mags for years, including Stereophile, the abso!ute sound, and UHF magazine. I don't see a correlation between reviews of equipment and advertisements. This charge has been made many times over the years, and has been addressed to my satisfaction by Atkinson and Harley.

Stereophile is now available as a digital edition, but I prefer the hard copy since I can read it in bed and other places where a notebook is awkward.

I agree with your statement "I read their reviews with a grain of salt". I do that with everything I read, especially the news media. I read audio magazines for the entertainment aspect, and I often find I learn something new.

 

[FISH_MAN]

So please explain what gives you such a unique perspective on high end audio?

nothing gives me a unique perspective other than I am the end user. my opinion
really is no better than anybody's and that really is the point audio is so subjective that the idea of a reviewer for speakers is almost ridiculous what sounds good to one may not to another I think the best thing you can do is just go and listen for yourself unfortunately that is often hard to do.I am not trying to knock what you do some people find reviews as a useful tool.maybe I just need to lighten up a bit

 

[SundayNiagara]

They have been the judge. Granted, I do get a certain allure out of vinyl which is why I have vinyl in my system. But hi-fi it is not. (on my system, anyway).

I've heard some pretty impressive vinyl setups, but so have I heard some pretty impressive digital setups. I'm not saying that the vinyl sounded better, but even if it did, when you realise what is involved in getting that sort of sound it's a case of "why the heck bother" for me.

It's like having a high performance sports car, you need to keep it tuned up.

 

[User211]

But when analog is done well it takes an even more expensive digital rig to compete with analog. At least that's been my experience.

Now back on the topic of Stereopile. It's only a few dollars to subscribe to the rag so I do.

Craig, consider some 2nd hand stuff to keep the costs down, no?

Anyway, $12 for a years subscription to digital S'phile is pretty amazing, really, but maybe even this is pushing it these days. Perhaps free is more apt - zero print/paper costs and negligible electronic distribution costs must surely mean advertisers revenue should be adquate to cover the electronic version.

Enter Tonepub...

 

[amey01]

It's like having a high performance sports car, you need to keep it tuned up.

Yes it is! A little bit anyway, but its' more like this - and then you realise that you can get the same (or better) performance out of a Subaru WRX and you start to think "why bother" too.......

 

[SundayNiagara]

Yes it is! A little bit anyway, but its' more like this - and then you realise that you can get the same (or better) performance out of a Subaru WRX and you start to think "why bother" too.......

However, the main focus of this thread is sound, and I believe you have given your answer above.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Exactly. I believe it was the Montage which they reviewed. http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/505ml/ Indeed, Martin Logan used be reviewed quite often in Stereophile. Hell, Sam Telig's gushing over the Aerius encouraged me to seek them out. And as alluded above, the Ascent was met with great acclaim.

I did not renew my subscription about two years ago. I still like the magazine. That being said, as Jeff pointed out, if their testing procedures are not as rigorous as they should be, they must be discounted. Seeing a terrible set of measurements can have a huge effect. I really like Robert Baird though.
Cheers,
ML

Hello,
I am glad you guys checked out the Montage review I alluded to formerly. Not to sound too sensitive here, but, never on a forum have I posted with so few responses. I feel like Claude Raines. As many do, I am sure I asked a few newbie questions about smoke, ESL panel longevity,etc..., That being said, I have always tried to write informed, respectful posts. Sorry if this offends.
ML

 

[ScottGardner]

I feel like Claude Raines.

Humm... Ok. It is October, I'm a do it yourself kind of guy that likes to build his own or modify others stuff... I guess that makes me Colin Clive?

Sorry if this offends.

None taken.

If you really want to get some responses try starting a thread that proclaims "My cables are better than yours", then stand back and watch as the stampede trounces.

I don't worry too much if everyone ignores me. What the heck do they know anyway? Seriously though many (or maybe only me) come here to blab and don't really expect a response. I'm just trying to get my post count high enough to be a 'Senior' member

kidding, just kidding...

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[User211]

No change, and no surprises, April 2009 recommended components list.:devil:

 

[daniel]

To be recomended a speaker has to be reviewed. It 's been a long time since they reviewed any serious Martin Logan loudspeakers.

If some of us would ask for it on their forum, maybe they would. I know I did in the past, but I was the only one.

 

[User211]

Daniel - it isn't Stereophile - it's ML who didn't like their Montage review, if you read the whole thread. Actually, it wasn't that bad a review... but it obviously caused ML a problem.

Time to let bygones be bygones?

 

[David Matz]

It really is a farce. If these guys took seriously the title of their publication - "Stereophile", they would find a way to review at least one or 2 marquee products. Not having a relationship with ML is just an excuse to keep playing the same game. But if the game is not working, why not change it?

Here's a simple solution: Why not run out and buy a pair of CLXs. Review them and sell them! Sure it's a bit different than the current incestuous magazine - manufacturer thing that goes on. But here's a chance to add value to the readers and these guys are hiding behind excuses.

 

[wink]

Here's an oldie but goodie....anyone remember this one?

 

[JonFo]

Here's an oldie but goodie....anyone remember this one?

Oh, yeah, I sure remember that one.

And boy, was that the worst setup for the class of gear he had.

A huge stucco, glass and tile room that must have been a nightmare of a reverb chamber.

Makes my hair stand on end just to think about it :eek1:

But back to the Stereophile thing, I sure don't beleive a word of any speaker review unless they specifically outline the room used to audition them.
They list all the supporting gear, but rarely detail the room, yet it's probably got more to do with the results (of speaker evaluation) than anything else.

 

[User211]

It really is a farce. If these guys took seriously the title of their publication - "Stereophile", they would find a way to review at least one or 2 marquee products. Not having a relationship with ML is just an excuse to keep playing the same game. But if the game is not working, why not change it?

Here's a simple solution: Why not run out and buy a pair of CLXs. Review them and sell them! Sure it's a bit different than the current incestuous magazine - manufacturer thing that goes on. But here's a chance to add value to the readers and these guys are hiding behind excuses.

Damned fine idea... and since the review could only be great, they'd make ML warm to them again, and everyone would be friends.

Peace and love, man. Peace and love.