Whats more importnat to upgrade Amp or pre-amp?

[SundayNiagara]

TOUGH question.

Provided everything is top notch and the speaker is well-resolving. I think the best move would be your amplification. That said, moving to a truly high end preamp would ALSO do wonders for a system.

This is tough... with what I've done for my system, I can tell you that I always seemed to have upgraded the amplifier then the preamp and back around again.

Here's a quick synopsis of my upgrades...

Initially had the Rotel RB1070 amp and RC1070 preamp. I initially stuck with this combo with the Summits (much to the dismay of many on this forum).

Later, I upgraded from the RB1070 amp to the Rotel RB1090 dual mono amp. I had the RC1070 preamp running for some time, then I decided to upgrade the preamp to a Rogue Metis tube preamp after several months.

Then I took the RB1090 and moved to a Plinius SA102... then at which point I decided to upgrade the preamp from the Rogue Metis to the Rogue Perseus to the Rogue Magnum 99 to the Cary SLP-98.

Then while still sticking with the Plinius as my amplifier, I upgraded from the Cary SLP-98 to the current Cary SLP-05 preamplifier.

So, by looking at my history between amps and preamps.... it would seem that I always upgraded my AMP before the PREAMP!

When you started auditioning amps & pre-amps, you already had the good front end?

 

[Joey_V]

When you started auditioning amps & pre-amps, you already had the good front end?

Front end for me has been mediocre - probably an achilles heel of my system. However, my statement regarding amp vs preamp is based on the fact that the system in question has top end source and speakers. And isolating the preamp and amp alone - the amp is the one I'd move up first.

If you want to bring in the source to the mix... that's tough. But I still think I'd move up downstream prior to upstream.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Front end for me has been mediocre - probably an achilles heel of my system. However, my statement regarding amp vs preamp is based on the fact that the system in question has top end source and speakers. And isolating the preamp and amp alone - the amp is the one I'd move up first.

If you want to bring in the source to the mix... that's tough. But I still think I'd move up downstream prior to upstream.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Bernard]

Great analogy, Bernard. I agree with both of you guys. But your response still doesn't answer the O.P.'s question: If you are planning on upgrading both over time, which should you upgrade first for the most bang for the buck, the amp or preamp (and why)?

Rich, I have to return to my assertion that I cannot answer that question in general terms like that.

On to specifics: Assuming that I have a fine all-ARC amplification system (and I do), and that I am happy with it (and I am). Now if I had $10K for an upgrade (I wish!), would I take the relatively inferior signal from my SP9 and feed it through mightier ARC monoblocks (I would certainly hear the difference), or would I take the superior signal from the mighty Ref 3 and feed it through my relatively inferior VTM 120s (again, I would certainly hear the difference) ?

Which would be the better approach ? I don't know. This is definitely a case of suck it and see. I would have to assemble all of the components in my listening room and live with them for a week or so.

BTW Rich, thanks for curing me of Linnitis; it's not that easy.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Rich, I have to return to my assertion that I cannot answer that question in general terms like that.

On to specifics: Assuming that I have a fine all-ARC amplification system (and I do), and that I am happy with it (and I am). Now if I had $10K for an upgrade (I wish!), would I take the relatively inferior signal from my SP9 and feed it through mightier ARC monoblocks (I would certainly hear the difference), or would I take the superior signal from the mighty Ref 3 and feed it through my relatively inferior VTM 120s (again, I would certainly hear the difference) ?

Which would be the better approach ? I don't know. This is definitely a case of suck it and see. I would have to assemble all of the components in my listening room and live with them for a week or so.

BTW Rich, thanks for curing me of Linnitis; it's not that easy.

If I were upgrading your system, I'd start with an outboard phono stage and work my way back from there. The ARC SP-9/VTM-120 combo has high enough resolution to do so.

 

[Bernard]

If I were upgrading your system, I'd start with an outboard phono stage and work my way back from there. The ARC SP-9/VTM-120 combo has high enough resolution to do so.

Good point; I have been lusting over the ARC PH7 as it would be a great combo with my Koetsu.

I had left out considerations of the phono stage in order to simplify the discussion; I would have to listen to it too.

 

[xenonaut]

I totally agree with Rich. The best sequence to do this in is amp first then pre.

But as other have noted, it depends on whether the new amp is better or not than the current amp.

For instance, if you have a Sanders amp, then there aren’t any benefits to changing it, look at the pre.


My guidance would be to look for an amp that works well with the speakers you are trying to drive. In the case of ML's that's a small subset of what's available. So advice from this board from people who've used models in conjunction with ML's is invaluable (not always correct, but good reading ).

I think this is right on the mark. For decades, I took the opposite approach: focus first on the source, then on the preamp, then the amp, then the speakers. But you know what I found, when I got to the end? That the synergy between amp and speakers may have the single biggest impact on system character (particularly with "special" speakers and/or amps).

So my advice now would be to start with your speakers and then find the right amp for them. From there, I would tend to work backwards, although I could see "skipping around" a bit, considering that fact that digital sources seem less prone to compatibility issues, so the odds are good that an excellent (digital) source is likely to work well in any good system (cartridge and phono preamp interaction is another ballgame).

Aside from that, I think the point that others have made in this thread, that the chain is only a strong as the weakest link, is absolutely correct.