What MLs for my home theater setup?

[Albertan]

The other ways to achieve this goal are to use a lot of bass traps (room acoustic treatments) in the corners, and use a surround sound processor that incorporates some form of Digital Bass Management room correction software (like Audyssey, or Meridian MRC).

In my system, I have one Descent and I love it. It blends great with the Summits and provides more than enough impact for home theater. I would love to upgrade it to the Descent i. I honestly think one Descent i is probably all the sub you will ever need. Better to spend three grand on bass traps or digital bass correction than on a second subwoofer, I would think.

I am planning to use bass traps so I think I'll plan on a single Descent i for the time being. Thanks for your feeback Rich and Craig as well.

 

[Rich]

In fact, 2 smaller subs will usually perform better than a single larger sub. The advantage of a larger sub is that it will perform to a lower freq but that doesn't occur very often in movies and even less in music.

This is so true, and is the reason many people go with more than one sub. The difficult part is placing two subs in optimum positions in a smaller room. Often the spots where the subs will sound the best are not the most convenient locations. Ah, but this is all part of the fun of this hobby. Albertan, you might consider calling ML and getting their opinions on one Descent i vs. two Depth i in a room this size to match with the Summits for home theater use. They may have some good insight for you. I know a lot of people put one sub in the front of the room and one in the rear of the room. Just some different ideas to consider, as if you didn't have enough on your plate.

 

[Rich]

I'm not sure how Sources or any other floor mount surround speakers will fit in my room. I just don't consider it that big. If I have to set my rear speakers a few feet from the back/side walls like the Summits up front, I defnitely won't be getting two rows of seating in. Which brings up another question. Given what I have learned of the dipolar nature of the ESL speakers and why they are best palced off the walls, how is it that the Scripts work well as wall mounts? This seems to contradict what I have learned, and yet they are very highly regarded in HT setups.

First of all, I agree with you regarding space issues and strongly urge you not to get floorstanding speakers for the surround speakers. I have the Clarities for mine and they are just in the way and have to be placed too close to the walls. I am strongly considering replacing them with an on-wall speaker for this reason. Personally, I am not a big fan of the script i's for the reason that you mention. I just don't think these type of speakers perform their best as a wall mount. Having said that, though, I know that many people are very happy with their scripts as surround speakers.

That is one reason I have been pushing the idea of the in-wall speakers for surround duty. They are very well-made and perform flawlessly. They are hidden away and won't detract from the esthetic of your room. And, the truth is, for home theater surround sound effects, you really just don't need an esl panel to get great surround sound that matches well with the front speakers.

I know the fresco on-wall's don't look that great, but I will say that I got a surround sound demo once at Tweeters (and we all know how poorly Tweeters usually sets up their demo rooms) with the fresco's as the surround speakers and I was blown away at how good the surround field sounded. I think if you got a chance to hear them, you would be amazed at how good the Voyage in-wall speakers sound.

At the same time, I understand the concept of wanting ESL panels all the way around and in that case, the script i's are the way to go, if you can find a couple of pairs of them.

 

[taylode]

I have Fresco's as my surround speakers and I'm extremely satisfied with their sound. I even like them when playing SACD's. I also have a single Descent i that I'm very happy with; however, I can still hear where the sound is coming from. Two would make that more difficult. Of my speakers, the Decent would be that last to be replaced -- I may add a second though! I'm very happy with my sub. I just wish that I could have a dedicated room like you're building. Heck I'm building a house and still can't work in a dedicated room.

 

[Craig]

About three - four years ago my home theatre system included Odysseys for mains with Ascents for rears. The Odysseys were awesome but too large for my HT room so I later changed to Ascents for mains with Ascents for rears. These two combinations were very good for SACD/DVD-A 5.1 channel music and DVD concert surround sound videos but the floorstanders for rears required too much floor space and I've since gone to Aeons for the front mains and have black scripts on the walls. With the scripts, I can now have end tables a the sides of the sofa. I don't really miss the floorstanders as rears that much and completely satisfied with the Script rears.

The amount of sound to the rear speakers in most 5.1 media to include SACD, DVD-A and DTS etc is relatively small. I find the Scripts get the job done just fine in my HT system and stay out of the way of seating/viewing positions. If I had at least 5 feet of space behind my sofa then I would have stayed with floorstanders but due to my room size, my sofa has to be almost up against the wall.

I found the Ascents/Aeon floorstanders to be much more valuable to me doing 2 channel duty in another room.

 

[Albertan]

Well I've been mulling over the surround speakers for a few days. I think when I have the chance to speak with Gord again in the next few days I am going to look into the Voyages a little more. I really think having the electrostats integrated into the walls would look great but some large black Voyages would also fit the bill and space is at a premium, especially if I try to integrate two subs. Thanks again guys. I'm going to research the Voyages a bit more. More questions to follow.

 

[Albertan]

I went in to talk to Gord today, but he was busy with other clients. I've been leaning towards the Voyages. I like the look and ESL nature of the Scripts better, but securing four may be a bit of a problem. And I am still unsure of the acoustics of having them mounted inches from the wall behind them. The little info I can find on the Voyages sounds very promising. One concern I hear from people with the in-wall speakers is the fact that you cannot move them around. Really, since I wanted to "permanently" mount the Scripts so that none of the wires were exposed, I would face this same problem with either speaker. Can anyone tell me how people usually get around this. I know the ideal is to move them around and find out what works best, and I would certainly do this with the Summits. But for the surrounds, is there a general principle of placement that is going to get me close? Its hard to get a feel for the sound of the speakers when the walls have to be up to put them in. Thanks.

 

[taylode]

If it were me, I'd temporarily mount them where I think they should be but not actually cut any wholes in the wall. Once I've got the location that I think they sound best then I'd go ahead and permanently mount them. After they're installed you can fine tune them by angling the internal speakers to optimize the sound. With somewhat fixed sitting, once installed and optimized I doubt you'll be needing, or wanting, to move them. In any case, good luck and remember to document with photo's -- we all love photos!

 

[Rich]

Can anyone tell me how people usually get around this. I know the ideal is to move them around and find out what works best, and I would certainly do this with the Summits. But for the surrounds, is there a general principle of placement that is going to get me close?

For your main front L & R speakers, moving them around a little to get perfect placement is critical, but for the center and surrounds, not as much. For 5.1, 7.1 & 9.1 surround sound, there are fairly established rules for where the center and surround speakers are supposed to be located in relation to the front two speakers and the center listening position. Google 7.1 surround sound or look it up on wikipedia to get started, then do some research on different home theater forums and acoustics websites. The information is out there, you just have to search for it. Having said that, each room is different and it is always better to try different positions and see which sounds best in your room. But that is difficult when you are trying to run wires in the wall and constructing a room before you can get the system set up.

One word of advice. Given the amount of money you are spending with this dealer, I would expect a LOT more assistance from them than they appear to be giving you in designing this home theater properly. They should have experience with that and should be falling all over themselves to help you. If they aren't, you may want to prod them into reassessing their priorities. There are other sources that you can obtain this gear from and they need to work to earn your money.

Here is an image off the web of a pretty standard 7.1 setup. Basically, you have one speaker on each side of the listening position and one on each side, but at an angle behind the listening position, with all speakers pointed at the center listening position. Notice that all seven speakers are roughly equidistant from the center listening position. Again, this is general and placement doesn't have to be that exact. Any good surround sound processor will time-align the speakers to make it sound correct.

 

[theWB]

I went in to talk to Gord today, but he was busy with other clients. I've been leaning towards the Voyages. I like the look and ESL nature of the Scripts better, but securing four may be a bit of a problem. And I am still unsure of the acoustics of having them mounted inches from the wall behind them. The little info I can find on the Voyages sounds very promising. One concern I hear from people with the in-wall speakers is the fact that you cannot move them around. Really, since I wanted to "permanently" mount the Scripts so that none of the wires were exposed, I would face this same problem with either speaker. Can anyone tell me how people usually get around this. I know the ideal is to move them around and find out what works best, and I would certainly do this with the Summits. But for the surrounds, is there a general principle of placement that is going to get me close? Its hard to get a feel for the sound of the speakers when the walls have to be up to put them in. Thanks.

Mounting the Scripts to the wall does not cause a problem with the acoustics IMHO. I have acoustical foam mounted behind mine to absorb the backwave.
The Scripts are adjustable on their brackets you just have to get the height right, they adjust from side to side on the bracket. Surround placement isn't as crucial as the mains IMHO because so very little content comes out of the rears. Of course I'm more of a Music person than Movies.

If going with the Scripts remember you'll need power for the ESL panel either an electrical outlet near each speaker or you can do as I did which is daisy chained them from the Theater i.

I also agree with Rich that if your spending some serious coin with the dealer you should be geting a lot more info, options and help from him.

 

[Albertan]

Hi guys. Still working on the system. I don't have as much time to post now that I am back at work and hauling the kids to hockey all weekend. I received an e-mail from Gord today saying that he talked to the people at MIT Cables and they recommended these in wall termination systems. The theory behind it is here. I have to research these more. They seem like a lot of money ($659/channel), so I thought I would see if anyone has any feedback on such items. Thanks for your help as always.

 

[Rich]

I received an e-mail from Gord today saying that he talked to the people at MIT Cables and they recommended these in wall termination systems. The theory behind it is here. I have to research these more. They seem like a lot of money ($659/channel), so I thought I would see if anyone has any feedback on such items.

My Opinion: BIG Waste of Money. What theory? I didn't read any theory on that link, just marketing hype. They don't give any real scientific reason why this product is useful, especially in a surround application and they don't provide any real scientific information to evaluate how this product will perform with electrostats (capacitance, inductance, resistance). They just show a graph with articulation on one axis and frequency on the other. How do they measure articulation, exactly? And what does it really mean to say the cable is or isn't "articulating ideally?" Pure Marketing BS!

Charging $650 a pop for what is basically a glorified wall plate seems absolutely ridiculous to me. If your dealer is actually recommending such a product to you, I would seriously question whose interests he has in mind. Certainly not yours. Perhaps someone with more experience with MIT products can explain why this product might be useful and/or cost effective. But it sounds like a rip-off to me.