Vista vs Vantage

[amey01]

So I'm not the only one with deja-vu.

I have a strong sense of deja-vu as well!

 

[Scumurculum]

If it is the same guy it makes this post hilarious:

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?p=22120#post22120

 

[Beakman]

I have a pair of Aeon i's and was thinking of upgrading to the new Vantages, but am having second thoughts.
So I went to the dealer with some questions in mind and looked over the newer models, the Vista and the Vantage. Bear in mind that I am also looking into a better sub than I have (I want a VPMS w/ seperate amp) and here are my conclusions:
The only advantage the Vistas have on my current Aeon i's is the highly subjective one of appearance. The Vistas also lack the "ambiance tweeter" in the rear of the Aeon i, thus I'd be down one option. The Vantages seem to be using the same electrostat panel as the Vista's, so I see no gain there. Because the Vantages have there own amp for an improved lower end response I'm not really keen on the improvement an upgrade to these units would make for me. I am figuring that my intended sub woofer setup will do the job nicely with my current Aeon i's.
I didn't get any answers from the dealer, as they were all busy with "buying" customers, so any opinions from any and all here is more than welcome, even to answer a basic "Is the vista an improvement on the Aeon i or just a repackaging?"

 

[jmschnur]

Boutrosa,

Yes the system seems a bit better after 15-30 minutes. I believe this is true for almost all amplifiers (perhaps most electronics) since they parts are speced to perofrm only after they have been in operation for a while.

What are the negatives for leaving the amp on all the time?

How much power does it use in "idle".

Joel

 

[Rik_Rankin]

Radio Shack Nerds

I have a strong sense of deja-vu as well!

I have a strong sense of Deja Vu too. Mine is that I am dealing with a bunch of nerds at a Radio Shack conference. When someone disagrees with you, he is automatically like someone else who was here before? You want the new product, go and buy it! Some of us don't like it and if you don't like it, too bad. Maybe you are on ML's payroll. I like their old products better

 

[Viking]

I have a strong sense of Deja Vu too. Mine is that I am dealing with a bunch of nerds at a Radio Shack conference. When someone disagrees with you, he is automatically like someone else who was here before? You want the new product, go and buy it! Some of us don't like it and if you don't like it, too bad. Maybe you are on ML's payroll. I like their old products better

Calling names is really unneccessary, if you have no arguments it`s better to keep quiet.
I`ve had both the Summits and the CLS in my room at the same time, and having tested I can say to all who thinks the Summits have some fault in the integration betwen panel and woofer, to either be deaf, heard a bad setup of some kind or wishful thinking that the old stuff is best and newr doesn`t mean better. So if Summits are bad, so are the CLS because in my setup they play extremely similar in the bass, the Summit more transparent in mids and highs but no more level in MF or HF than CLS.
Have you tested the new vs. the older models under 100% same conditions or are your ramblings just opinions where multiple other causes could be the culprit of the differences you claim?

 

[IWalker]

MSRP is, I believe
Vantage-$5000
Vista-$3750

One consideration is to get a cheap yet powerful ss "pro" amp for the bass section, and put the majority of your amp money into the amp for the panels.

Is the crossover set at the same point in both? I definitely considered bi-amping Vistas (and still am, somewhat...though I think I may try to find CLSIIZs instead, now that my situation has changed)

 

[Rich]

I have a strong sense of Deja Vu too. Mine is that I am dealing with a bunch of nerds at a Radio Shack conference. When someone disagrees with you, he is automatically like someone else who was here before? You want the new product, go and buy it! Some of us don't like it and if you don't like it, too bad. Maybe you are on ML's payroll. I like their old products better

It isn't your difference of opinion that displeases the members of this forum, it is the way in which you express it. When you post with such an uncivil tone, you engender not an honest discussion about the merits of old vs. new Martin Logans, but instead a name-calling tirade that lowers the quality of the experience for all involved. This reminds many of us of someone who was recently banned from this forum (twice). And you just recently joined. Hmmm? Makes one wonder.

 

[Craig]

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=2267&page=1&pp=30

Some of you guys act like you are on the ML payroll! What is going on here?<!-- / message -->

The vantage and Vista looks like at was designed by a guy while he was sitting on the toilet

Not only is this the same old banter as before, it's almost verbatim. not to mention he also owned SL3s. Hmmm? Interesting coincidence...

We all have our opinions and disagreements but most of us express them like mature adults without the insults. Debates are great and can be informative when backed up by sound rationale instead of pointless insults.

 

[Craig]

The panels of the Vista and Vantage appear to be the same. I think the main difference is the powered woofers of the Vantage. I don't think the difference between the Aeon i and the Vista is enough to warrant an upgrade. If I was going to upgrade from the Aeon i then I would go for the Vantage. The powered woofer is great bonus and gives you more amplifier options since the powered speakers will work well with a lowered powered amp.

Another option to consider is upgrading to the Ascent i (used). You can find some great deals on used Ascent i's and it is a significant improvement. However, if space is a consideration, the Ascents are significantly larger than the Vista, Vantage and even the Summits.

And one more option is keep your Aeon i's and upgrade the amplification or other electronics. MLs usually respond well to upstream upgrades. I've heard really good bass from my Aeons but only when powered with a quality amp and with setup just right in a room with good acoustics. in my experience, I've found the larger older ML speakers and the newer ML line to be more forgiving.

It's good to have options.

 

[boutrosa]

Craig:

Regarding the vista and vantage, there is a difference of avout 200 hertz in the crossover. I cannot get to ml's website now to show them to you. However, if I can recall, I think to that vista xover is at 450 hz, and the vantage is lower.

What about to clarity speakers, where do they fit into the picture. When I purchased My Vistas, i remember listening to both the clarity and the vista, and to my ears there was a huge difference in the sound quality. I had hear the vantages about a week before, and thought they were excellent but a bit more than I was willing to spend in speakers at that time. Do not get me wrong, I do not regret one day that I purchased my Vistas. I find them excellent and have very good sound. The sound quality is so clean clear and transparent, that it make you become picky and now I am in the process of changing my other speakers.
It like watching HDTV once you start watching HDTV stations, you do not want to watch sdtv (ntsc) stations anymore. Its as if the other stations do not exist.

 

[jjay]

I upgraded from the Aeon 1 to the ML Vantage speakers a month ago. The Vantage had more bass which was the main reason i upgraded speakers. I also noticed that the Xstat panel was more revealing than the Aeon 1 panel. Is there a difference in the panel or is this because of the powered woofers or is this because the Vantage speakers are more efficient? Any thoughts on this. I did not expect any panel differences, just more bass.
Jim

 

[DTB300]

Is there a difference in the panel or is this because of the powered woofers or is this because the Vantage speakers are more efficient?

Efficiency probably does not contribute to a sound difference, just makes it easier to drive than older models.

New Panel Technology, Powered Woofer, More Efficient = A better speaker than the Aeon IMHO.

The Aeon and Odyssey were my two favorites of the older generation Hybrids.

Dan

 

[amey01]

The funny thing here is that I (and maybe most of us here?) like some their older products better too........the CLS, Prodigy, Statement, etc. This in no way detracts from the new line - the line is fantastic in its own right, albeit different to what has come before.

Each speaker that ML builds is different - has a different look and sonic signature. Some I prefer more than others, but they are all fantastic speakers. As far as I have heard, ML is yet to build a dud, from the original Monolith to the current Summit, they're all fantastic or better. Admittedly I haven't heard the non-ESL ATF stuff!

 

[Rik_Rankin]

The funny thing here is that I (and maybe most of us here?) like some their older products better too........the CLS, Prodigy, Statement, etc. This in no way detracts from the new line - the line is fantastic in its own right, albeit different to what has come before.

Each speaker that ML builds is different - has a different look and sonic signature. Some I prefer more than others, but they are all fantastic speakers. As far as I have heard, ML is yet to build a dud, from the original Monolith to the current Summit, they're all fantastic or better. Admittedly I haven't heard the non-ESL ATF stuff!

I home auditioned the Vista and Vantage and didn't like them. I thought they were tilted up too much on the highs and the bass sounded too accentuated which made them sound like Hi FI and not music. I heard the same thing in several stores. I also think the old line looked better too. the new line seems good for HT, lousy for purist 2 channel.

 

[ralflar]

What's wrong with you and your "sounds like Hi Fi"? You wrote this before, and it does not make sense no matter how often it is repeated.

 

[Matten Logan]

I home auditioned the Vista and Vantage and didn't like them. I thought they were tilted up too much on the highs and the bass sounded too accentuated which made them sound like Hi FI and not music. I heard the same thing in several stores. I also think the old line looked better too. the new line seems good for HT, lousy for purist 2 channel.

Ever hear the phrase "If you dont like the heat, stay away from the fire". If you dont like the speakers, stay out of the forum. I can understand if you dont like the newer ML line. Great! There's no need to let those of us who do own them that we purchased lously speakers. Be happy with what you have, and let us enjoy ours. Yes, I know you probably just post like that to get a rise out of us and we feed into it. Be a mentch, and leave us be.

 

[attyonline]

Craig:

Regarding the vista and vantage, there is a difference of avout 200 hertz in the crossover. I cannot get to ml's website now to show them to you. However, if I can recall, I think to that vista xover is at 450 hz, and the vantage is lower.

What about to clarity speakers, where do they fit into the picture. When I purchased My Vistas, i remember listening to both the clarity and the vista, and to my ears there was a huge difference in the sound quality. I had hear the vantages about a week before, and thought they were excellent but a bit more than I was willing to spend in speakers at that time. Do not get me wrong, I do not regret one day that I purchased my Vistas. I find them excellent and have very good sound. The sound quality is so clean clear and transparent, that it make you become picky and now I am in the process of changing my other speakers.
It like watching HDTV once you start watching HDTV stations, you do not want to watch sdtv (ntsc) stations anymore. Its as if the other stations do not exist.

You are not correct about the xover. The Vantage crosses over at 400 hz which is virtually the same as the Vista. As the drivers and woofer cabinets are the same size, there would be no point in having substantially different xover points.

 

[patlad]

from the specs:

Vantage xover: 400 hz
Vista xover: 450 Hz

Regards,

 

[Craig]

You are not correct about the xover. The Vantage crosses over at 400 hz which is virtually the same as the Vista. As the drivers and woofer cabinets are the same size, there would be no point in having substantially different xover points.<!-- / message -->

The Vantage crossover point is 450Hz while the Vista is at 400Hz. Also, the Vantage cabinet is a little larger and ported. Another diffference is the Vista's sensitivity is 90db with the Vantage weighing in at 92db. Additionally, the Vantage allows for a -/+ 10db adjustment of the bass level and the Vista does not.