Tweakage

[Jeff Zaret]

I knew I would for get something. I am not sure if this should go here or in to the Tweaks Section and if Tom wants to move it thats fine
I also just added two more sets of Herbie's Big Tenderfoot Isolation feet with Gabon ebony balls (okay boys lets not get crazy here ...LOL) This did help focus my sound a bit more. I put one of the sets of 3 balls each, under my CD player and one under the preamp. I did have a set of Tara Labs Vanishing points under them but these work better in my situation. If anyone is that bored and looks at my pictures again, you will see that they are on a suspended shelf of oak in an oak cabinet. Yes, there is vibration and transfer especially from the CLS sitting about 8 inches from the edge. What these do for me, is to isloate any transfer of vibration and give me a clean clear focused sound. This is not say that it was bad before but it is better.

I took one of the Tara Labs Vanishing Points I had and put it under my turntable and that too made a little difference and again it has to do with transferance of virbrations. This does affect sound. It is like everything in a chain.

I am not saying these will work for everyone but I have been extremely satisfied. Steve, at Herbies, http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/, is a great guy to work with and he gives you a 90 money back guarantee. He has a lot of good quality stuff and it is reasonably priced. Just read the reviews he has posted and check out all his stuff.

Oh yeah one more thing, I also bought one of his turntable mats too. This made another level of improvement from my turntable. MY TT is 20 years old and I was still using the original rubber mat. This improvement with the new cartridge and needle a few months back brough new life in to some old vinyl.

With all the recent changes I am hearing things on some of the older vinyl stuff that is now clear and some things that I did not know was there. Last week I was playing Stravinsky's Firebird Suite on vinyl and there are a few parts where it is rather percussive, well it scared the dog

I guess I better not play that one again that loud or she will leave me a doggie suprise in the house.

Jeff

 

[Taz]

I have tried different isolation. I just tried Vibrapods with Vibrapod cones on top of them. At $14 for both I would highly rec. these for isolation. Cleaned up and tightened the sound and for the price you can not beat them

 

[Robin]

Herbie's Isolation how's it been for your CD player?

Jeff,

I am thinking about Herbie's isolation feet with balls (I'm not sure, which kind of balls though - stone, wood, glass, etc.), for my CD/DVD player. And, did you purchase two rubberized cup holders, pre-ebony ball, for the upper / lower? or just one for the ball to sit in? How have they been working out for since you orienally posted this thread? What would you recommend? or would you recommend them? Have you seen an improvement in the performance of your CD player? Do the Herbie isolation feet make an improvement?

Cheers

-Robin

 

[aliveatfive]

Jeff -

I use Herbie's tube dampers on my new-production Tung-Sol 6550s. Another inexpensive, worthwhile improvement.

 

[risabet]

Love Herbie's

I use the tube dampers on all small signal tubes, both pre-amp and amp, and they definitely tighten up the sound. i agree with the Vibrapods adding an improvement to the sound IMS. Both companies provide cheap tweaks with great value.

PS: I also use Herbie's Way Cool TT Mat

 

[DTB300]

I use Herbie's Grunge Buster Mat for my CD/SACD's - Nice improvement for little money.

Dan

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Well I guess I need to answer now. LOL

Robin,
I use the ISO-Cup from Herbies. I believe it used to be called the Big Tenderfoot Isolation Cup but I see there is a "new" Big Tenderfoot. I use these with the Gabon ebony balls. For me it works great. I purchased the "blemished" Gabon ebony which sometimes he has on sale which I believe are half the price of regular ones. I needed to isolate my CD and other devices from the vibrations of the wall unit they sit in as well as the oak shelf which vibrates.

What I found was there was a bit more clarity and definitley a more pronouced bass. I have them under my CD, preamp and amp. I was using Tara Labs Vanishing points but there was a noticeable difference with these for me. I still use the Vanishing points on my Marantz amp and under my turntable because I do not have any more Herbies stuff but I will replace them with when money appears. The availability of money seems to be proportional to my "wallet leech" -19 year old daughter.

aliveatfive and risabet,
I am led to believe that my CJ does have tube dampers. I will wait until I have to replace the tubes or get a bit of money to look and replace them also with Herbies stuff.

I also have Herbies Way Excellent Turntable Mat and that too was an improvement over the 30 year old rubber mat (original) on my Thorens TD125 MkII.

Do I like Herbies stuff, well yeah. He is easy to deal with and has a 90 day no risk policy. So obviously he believes in his products. For an inexpensive investment and the improvement it gave me was well worth it.

At this point I am pretty happy with all my equipment and yes I could invest in things to make it better but at great expense. Herbie is the kind of find that I like because it does a lot for so little.


BTW, I have bought more stuff but have not posted it because I could get blasted for a few of my purchases. I look for quality solutions that do not cause credit card hemmorage and something that will provide great sound and flexibility for future growth.

Jeff

 

[Sunnyboy 1956]

Isolation for cdp/preamps

Have got great results with a 12" bicycle tube. Coupled with a 1" wooden platform and vibrapods its a cost effective solution for the turntable.The preamp is plonked straight on the rubber tube. For the cdp, a wooden plank is again neccessary given the need to maintain a 180 degree angle. Check my system #61.
Happy listening

 

[zaphod]

Have got great results with a 12" bicycle tube. Coupled with a 1" wooden platform and vibrapods its a cost effective solution for the turntable.The preamp is plonked straight on the rubber tube. For the cdp, a wooden plank is again neccessary given the need to maintain a 180 degree angle. Check my system #61.
Happy listening

knowning that i'd be putting something on top of the sub (most likely a monoblock amp), i did some research into isolation devices and found that the ultra-sensitive scales in labs often use .... bicycle tires.

i got a 12" tube, but found that the power amp i put on it leaned to one side (big torroids )

so i found that three small tubes (from electric scooter tires) fit under the amp with no problem - two under the heavy side and one under the other. i eventually zap strapped them together into a triangle and the isolation is great.

oh - and the amp. well, it ended up not being on the sub, but i did land an external dolby NR unit there for the R2R and it has a heck of a chassis rattle - until the tubes were placed under it...

it's a good thing.

 

[marck]

I have just placed an order for Herbie's Grunge Buster Mat for my CD / DVD's. I use a Theta Carmen transport. I am intrigued to see if it will make a difference.

DTB300, you mention that you noticed an improvement - what type of improvement. Also, did you try it with DVD's too.

Thanks
Marc.

 

[garmtz]

I have tried two mats and both did good things. Then I painted the CD edges green with a very cheap felt pen (although a very specific one, forgot the brand) and felt no need anymore for any mat, they now only made the sound WORSE!

 

[MarkNewbie]

I have tried two mats and both did good things. Then I painted the CD edges green with a very cheap felt pen (although a very specific one, forgot the brand) and felt no need anymore for any mat, they now only made the sound WORSE!

I am having some trouble grasping how "painting" the edges of a CD could have any impact? Can you explain how this works to me? I am not an Engineer but come from a family of them so please don't be too technical...LOL

Thanks garmtz.

As a footnote to this thread...
Dan - Your signature is way too funny!!!

 

[zaphod]

I am having some trouble grasping how "painting" the edges of a CD could have any impact?

the greening of CD edges is an old tweek that dates back over a decade. some swear it works. some swear it doesn't. the arguments over it make cable wars seem mild in comparison.

personally, i tried it and got green ink on my fingers when i handled the disc.

 

[DTB300]

I have just placed an order for Herbie's Grunge Buster Mat for my CD / DVD's. I use a Theta Carmen transport. I am intrigued to see if it will make a difference. DTB300, you mention that you noticed an improvement - what type of improvement. Also, did you try it with DVD's too.

I use it for audio discs only, and it does what the title says...removes or lessens that CD grunge, edginess, etc. What it really does is help the player get a better clamp hold on the disc through the center piece of the mat. Hence helping the tracking functions and error correction.

Initially listen to vocals to hear the difference. For $20, I believe it was a great price to performance product. Not earth shattering of a change, but a change for the better. I even did some blind testing (with help of my daughter) to make sure I really did hear an improvement and I did not hear a change due to knowing the device was installed or not.

You will notice when you first get it, that it will be VERY tacky to the surface of a CD. It will take time for you to learn to put it on. Centering it, I found, is the most critical application. Once you use the mat for a bit, it will be come less and less "tacky". All you need to do is run it under some water, use some mild soap on it, dry it off, and VOILA...back to new.

Dan

 

[DTB300]

I am having some trouble grasping how "painting" the edges of a CD could have any impact? Can you explain how this works to me?
Dan - Your signature is way too funny!!!

The theory was it helped with the bouncing of the laser through out the layers of the disc, as the red light would be absorbed by the green edges.

I try to change up my signature quotes when I find a new funny one...glad you enjoy them...

Dan

 

[MarkNewbie]

The theory was it helped with the bouncing of the laser through out the layers of the disc, as the red light would be absorbed by the green edges.

I try to change up my signature quotes when I find a new funny one...glad you enjoy them...

Dan

Help me here. So that would mean that any red light absorbed could not find it's way back into the pick-up thingamadoughy (technical term there) and thereby reduce distortion? Is that the improvement?

zap - between your comment and Dan's signature, I am having a hearty laugh this morning!

 

[DTB300]

Help me here. So that would mean that any red light absorbed could not find it's way back into the pick-up thingamadoughy (technical term there) and thereby reduce distortion? Is that the improvement?

Yeah...or reducing the directed or refracted laser interference....No scientist here myself...just remembering comments on the effect....

Dan

 

[MarkNewbie]

Yeah...or reducing the directed or refracted laser interference....No scientist here myself...just remembering comments on the effect....

Dan

I did study light refraction when I was trying to become a gemologist many years ago. I cannot see the benefit of painting the edge of a CD here. I am sure you have heard the four "C"s of a diamond; karet weight, cut, clarity, and color. I am explaining the value of "cut" here as it relates to this discussion. If you look at what is called the "Ideal" or "Brilliant" cut round diamond, the premise here is that the light that enters through the top is relected within the stone and back out the top. Hence the angle of the facets and the importance of those proportions in order to reflect the highest percentage of incoming light back out. What leaks out of the stone does not come back in. (The laser light that hits the green paint has already left the CD) As a diamond is put in a setting and worn, it tends to get dirty and lose a large porportion of it's sparkle. Dirt on the back side of the stone has a definite impact on it's ability to sparkle as ambient light enters through the back and sides and still comes out the top. But the light that comes in from the top and is reflected around inside is not effected as the reflection takes place on interior surfaces that are hit at angles that prevent the light from escaping or leaking out. The exterior does not effect that light reflected on the interior as such. So if the light were able to reach a surface outside the stone or the exterior surface it would not re-enter the stone and would simply pass on. Any reflections would occur within the stone itself. I would think that this would hold true for a CD. Does this make sense? This is why I am having trouble fathoming this as a workable CD tweak. I would think that you would just end up with green marks on your fingers like zap said from handling them.

If anyone can explain this better to me, please do. If you cannot tell, I am really struggling with it.

 

[SteveInNC]

If anyone can explain this better to me, please do. If you cannot tell, I am really struggling with it.

Warning: Physics lesson
I'll take a shot: in the late seventies/early eighties, I was working for a high-end computer graphics hardware company, back when most of the modern CGI research was taking place. That research saw the mainstream introduction of raytracing as a rendering method. The gist of it is that you model the physics of rays of light as they are reflected and refracted in a scene. I used to write code to do that stuff.

The relevant factors for this discussion are Snell's Law of Refraction, and the Law of Reflection. Try Googling these terms for detailed (more accurate) descriptions.

When light hits a boundary between two materials, some of the light is reflected back, and some is transmitted through the boundary.

Snell's law concerns what happens when light crosses a boundary between two materials. The respective refraction indices of each material, along with the angle at which the light crosses the boundary, control how much the light bends as it goes through the boundary. For CD/DVD purposes, the light is nominally crossing the air-to-plastic boundary at a 90 degree angle (eg - vertical), so the light changes direction very little. The beam then bounces (or not) off of the lands/pits in the aluminized layer of the CD, and recrosses the boundary back (still at mostly 90 degrees) to the optical sensor which converts it to electrical signals. If the beam hits a pit, the light is reflected randomly, some leaving the disc at other angles (missing the laser pickup), and some bouncing around within the disc itself. Note that the power is attenuating at each bounce, and even if some happened to bounce around enough to redirect back at the pickup, it would be swamped by the real signal, much like whispering in the midst of a symphony crescendo.

The Law of Reflection states that a reflected beam will leave a surface at the same (but opposite) angle that it strikes a surface. If a beam strikes a reflective surface at thirty degrees, the reflected beam will leave at thirty degrees. For CD purposes, the beam is striking the lands on the aluminized layer at ninety degrees (vertical), so they will be reflected straight back at the source, the laser/pickup assembly. Note that a tiny amount is reflected when the beam crosses the air/plastic boundary at the CD surface, but the materials are chosen to minimize that, and the resulting first-boundary reflection is still swamped by actual signal. When a pit is struck and effectively no signal should return, one can assume that the pickup electronics have a threshold function to supress any weak reflections.

The faceting on diamonds as described in Mark's example takes advantage of both of these principles: light enters the diamond and is bent somewhat by the air-to-diamond boundary. Once inside the diamond, the facets serve as mirrors for shallow-angle bounces, causing the light to bounce around inside the diamond, eventually exiting a facet in another direction. As such, light from almost any angle can exit the diamond at random other angles, causing it to sparkle as the position of the diamond changes the relevant angles to the light source(s).

Green edges... if you paint the edges of your CD green, you are effectively adding yet another crossing boundary: plastic-to-dye. Some signal gets reflected at that boundary before the dye can allegedly absorb the light. You have also added a second dye-to-air boundary which can cause another reflection, so you arguably could actually be making the probem worse, unless you assume that the dye perfectly absorbs all light in the laser signal.

 

[roberto]

Warning: Physics lesson
I'll take a shot: in the late seventies/early eighties, I was working for a high-end computer graphics hardware company, back when most of the modern CGI research was taking place. That research saw the mainstream introduction of raytracing as a rendering method. The gist of it is that you model the physics of rays of light as they are reflected and refracted in a scene. I used to write code to do that stuff.

The relevant factors for this discussion are Snell's Law of Refraction, and the Law of Reflection. Try Googling these terms for detailed (more accurate) descriptions.

When light hits a boundary between two materials, some of the light is reflected back, and some is transmitted through the boundary.

Snell's law concerns what happens when light crosses a boundary between two materials. The respective refraction indices of each material, along with the angle at which the light crosses the boundary, control how much the light bends as it goes through the boundary. For CD/DVD purposes, the light is nominally crossing the air-to-plastic boundary at a 90 degree angle (eg - vertical), so the light changes direction very little. The beam then bounces (or not) off of the lands/pits in the aluminized layer of the CD, and recrosses the boundary back (still at mostly 90 degrees) to the optical sensor which converts it to electrical signals. If the beam hits a pit, the light is reflected randomly, some leaving the disc at other angles (missing the laser pickup), and some bouncing around within the disc itself. Note that the power is attenuating at each bounce, and even if some happened to bounce around enough to redirect back at the pickup, it would be swamped by the real signal, much like whispering in the midst of a symphony crescendo.

The Law of Reflection states that a reflected beam will leave a surface at the same (but opposite) angle that it strikes a surface. If a beam strikes a reflective surface at thirty degrees, the reflected beam will leave at thirty degrees. For CD purposes, the beam is striking the lands on the aluminized layer at ninety degrees (vertical), so they will be reflected straight back at the source, the laser/pickup assembly. Note that a tiny amount is reflected when the beam crosses the air/plastic boundary at the CD surface, but the materials are chosen to minimize that, and the resulting first-boundary reflection is still swamped by actual signal. When a pit is struck and effectively no signal should return, one can assume that the pickup electronics have a threshold function to supress any weak reflections.

The faceting on diamonds as described in Mark's example takes advantage of both of these principles: light enters the diamond and is bent somewhat by the air-to-diamond boundary. Once inside the diamond, the facets serve as mirrors for shallow-angle bounces, causing the light to bounce around inside the diamond, eventually exiting a facet in another direction. As such, light from almost any angle can exit the diamond at random other angles, causing it to sparkle as the position of the diamond changes the relevant angles to the light source(s).

Green edges... if you paint the edges of your CD green, you are effectively adding yet another crossing boundary: plastic-to-dye. Some signal gets reflected at that boundary before the dye can allegedly absorb the light. You have also added a second dye-to-air boundary which can cause another reflection, so you arguably could actually be making the probem worse, unless you assume that the dye perfectly absorbs all light in the laser signal.

Hola...just reading you...this is what we knew long time ago about the green paint>
CD Stoplight is a proprietary plastic coating that is applied to the edge of a Compact Disc to reduce the scattered reflections of the laser beam and increase the signal-to-noise ratio of the detected laser. The result is a significant decrease in the harsh "edginess" in the sound of many CD's and an increase in clarity, resolution and ambience.

"The improvement was astonishing!" - **** Olsher, Stereophile, March, 1990.

I don't know if Mr. Olsher is a lier here...
Trust your ears, happy listening,
Roberto.