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My paycheck in feb is going to have quite a bit more in it. And I look at the brackets and can't see how many people could lose on this.

Quite a bit more? Hardly, unless you’re already in a top bracket. According to an analysis of the law by the Urban-Brookings tax policy center:

Next year, the average federal tax cut would be $1,610, the study found. The bottom fifth of income-earners would get an average cut of $60 and those in the middle fifth would get a $930 cut on average, according to the analysis. The top 1 percent would get $51,140 on average, and the top 0.1 percent would get $193,380.

In 2025, the average tax cut would fall to $1,570 on average. Those in the bottom fifth would get a cut of $70 and those in the middle fifth would get a cut of $910, according to the study. The top 1 percent would get $61,090 apiece and the top 0.1 percent would get $252,300.

Looks pretty slanted toward the ultra-wealthy to me, despite what Trump says about it favoring the middle class.
 
When the vote had been taken and the senators and representatives were talking about what had happened and then going to sign the bill I channel hopped to see what was being covered. Fox was the only channel that was covering it live. every other station had other programing on.

Ah, there’s your problem Brad. Personally, I don’t watch TV “news.” I consider it poorly produced opinion and entertainment. I get my news by reading, and from a large variety of sources. That way I control what information I am getting and I can much more efficiently find the news that interests me and weed through the crap. Watching TV is just being passively fed sensationalist crap from talking heads more interested in ratings than product. In my personal opinion.
 
Rich. I consider 6k take home quite a bit more.

So let's get real - based on the stats u stated average is 1600. And then a range between 900 and 50k. So there is a huge gap there which I and many others will fall in. I make 'above average' pay so it makes sense that if that is the case I would get a larger monetary cut since I pay more to begin with.

The analogy I would use is if I were getting s 10% discount on a car and I had a Ford Focus - I'd get about a 2k discount. A nicely equipped Tesla? I'd get about a 10k discount. You can't fight the math. You pay 90 for the Tesla - and 18 for the focus. more you pay - bigger the discount. A focus owner shouldn't expect a 10k discount because the Tesla owner is getting it.
 
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Timm, are you talking $6k take home per year or per month? Because you said your February check would have quite a bit more. If you’re talking $6k per year, then the Feb check would have $500 more. Which doesn’t sound like “quite a bit more” to me, but then it’s all relative. If you are talking an extra $6k per month, then I would agree with you that is quite a bit more.

Believe me, I understand the math. The people who have and earn the most get the most benefit; those who have and earn the least get very little benefit. The middle class gets some crumbs, and bankers, hedge fund millionaires, real estate moguls like Trump, and the like, make out like bandits. Especially with the repeal of the estate tax. Meanwhile, the deficit skyrockets, education suffers, and programs designed to help the poor and elderly will be cut.
 
Timm, are you talking $6k take home per year or per month? Because you said your February check would have quite a bit more. If you’re talking $6k per year, then the Feb check would have $500 more. Which doesn’t sound like “quite a bit more” to me, but then it’s all relative. If you are talking an extra $6k per month, then I would agree with you that is quite a bit more.

Believe me, I understand the math. The people who have and earn the most get the most benefit; those who have and earn the least get very little benefit. The middle class gets some crumbs, and bankers, hedge fund millionaires, real estate moguls like Trump, and the like, make out like bandits. Especially with the repeal of the estate tax. Meanwhile, the deficit skyrockets, education suffers, and programs designed to help the poor and elderly will be cut.

Haha. No 500/mo. 6k per year. I don't have Gordon money!! :)
 
Oh. And I completely disagree with the estate tax as well. Government doesn't deserve 50% of someone's estate. They earned it. They worked for it. It's theirs and the families. Why not let the gestapo come in and just clear out houses. It's legal stealing as far as I'm concerned.

Re 'not much'. Look. I am working class. The average pay bump in most corporations is 2% per year. The gov is looking to give me a 3-4% per year pay raise. So it is relative. If I made 500k - well 6k wouldn't buy the toilet paper needed for my 10 bathrooms. But I will guarantee you - 500/month is a big deal for a lot of people.
 
Regarding the estate tax, I understand your arguments. I also understand the idea of trying to prevent the formation of a permanent class of “nobility” in this country. As you say, they earned it. But they can’t take it with them, and their heirs didn’t earn it in any sense of the word. Yet they will have the money, and the power and political influence that goes with it, for generations moving forward, without having to work for it. That’s not a great basis for a democracy.

Ultimately, if we want to live in a great country, with a strong military, excellent infrastructure, top-notch education, etc. etc., someone has to pay for all that. Seems to me that those who have benefitted the most from living in this country should pay back the most.
 
I look at this from having lived on both sides of the coin. I was on my own and poor at 18. I put myself through college with Pell Grants, student loans, and work/study. Now, I’ve been retired and living off my equity portfolio for the past seventeen years. Coincidentally, my current house actually does have 10 bathrooms. ;)

I think the rich can survive quite well while still paying their fair share of taxes. I’ve been doing it for seventeen years and never complained. And there are plenty who are a whole lot wealthier than I am. Giving them (and me) a tax break is obscene in my opinion.
 
I look at this from having lived on both sides of the coin. I was on my own and poor at 18. I put myself through college with Pell Grants, student loans, and work/study. Now, I’ve been retired and living off my equity portfolio for the past seventeen years. Coincidentally, my current house actually does have 10 bathrooms. ;)

I think the rich can survive quite well while still paying their fair share of taxes. I’ve been doing it for seventeen years and never complained. And there are plenty who are a whole lot wealthier than I am. Giving them (and me) a tax break is obscene in my opinion.

Haha. Nice!! How is that DMP??
 
I haven’t had time to listen for the past week. Too busy with Christmas stuff, family, etc. Hopefully I’ll get some time for music tomorrow.
 
Wow, Breitbart’s editor-in-chief admitted today that he believed Roy Moore’s accusers and thought Moore was a terrible candidate! This coming from the top editor of the “fake news” rag that vociferously supported Moore and questioned the credibility of his accusers. Just another example of the lies, hypocrisy, and moral turpitude of Steve Bannon and, for that matter, Donald Trump. And of the stupidity of the extremist conservatives that follow and support them. Party over country, indeed. At this point, Breitbart has less credibility than the National Enquirer.
 
Haha. No 500/mo. 6k per year. I don't have Gordon money!! :)

timm,

I worked for forty five years and was "house poor" for thirty of those which means my house payment exceeded 50% of my net pay which I covered by my lonesome. For the last twenty years of my employment, I worked for a public agency. As you may know, government jobs don't pay a lot of money. However, the good news is my employer had a solid pension plan. For the majority of my working life, I, like many others, lived pay check to pay check and was constantly in debt up to my ears. I rarely took any vacations because I could not afford to take them. And, to the best of my knowledge, the new tax law will likely not benefit me in any manner.

With my pension, Social Security, house equity and my IRA, I have enough to be "comfortable" in my retirement but I am, by no means, wealthy. And, with all due respect, it was all my effort with no help from anyone else and fortunately, it all worked out in the end.

Best,

Gordon

PS: I'm glad you will see a benefit from the new tax law.
 
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timm,

I worked for forty five years and was "house poor" for thirty of those which means my house payment exceeded 50% of my net pay which I covered by my lonesome. For the last twenty years of my employment, I worked for a public agency. As you may know, government jobs don't pay a lot of money. However, the good news is my employer had a good pension plan. For the majority of my working life, I, like many others, lived pay check to pay check and was constantly in debt up to my ears. And the new tax law will likely not benefit me in any manner.

With my pension and Social Security, I have enough to be "comfortable" in my retirement but I am, by no means, wealthy. And, with all due respect, it was all my effort with no help from anyone else and fortunately, it all worked out in the end.

Best,

Gordon

And I hope you know I was just yanking your chain - as a joke. I actually like you guys - and I have a tendency to do that with people I like. :)

Have a great holiday.
 
My paycheck in feb is going to have quite a bit more in it. And I look at the brackets and can't see how many people could lose on this. So for Dems to say that people are going to pay more? Well I'll just say they either can't do math or don't understand that deductions aren't dollar for dollar. It makes them look bad. I get trying the 'oh things are going to be terrible in the future' ploy. But to say or imply that most Americans will pay more in taxes is just politics. People will see their pay and figure it out.

FWIW, as a self employed guy with no debt and very few deductions living in a state with no income tax and low property taxes, the new tax structure will benefit me.

However I can't support what they are doing which is adding tremendous deficit spending. Keep in mind that the GOP would have increased this deficit load even more if they were not limited to adding an additional 1.5 Trillion to our debt. I'll never understand why people are fine when the GOP adds dramatically to our deficits, but democrats are insane when they do it.

On top of that they are sabotaging the ACA rather than fixing it even though all the impartial estimates are that this will end up costing us more in the long run.

I see this mentality over and over again.

So far what have we got?

Shutting down government enforcement so that corporations can pollute the air and water more and giving injured people little recourse.
Having no ability to test for harmful chemicals in food coming in from all over the globe.
Selling off our national park acreage.
Losing all credibility on the world stage so that we are losing what remained of our leadership in world events.
Creating an environment where prejudice rules
Trying to burn more coal which puts more mercury, lead, and other pollution in the air which will cause more people to die from cancer.
Banning the use of words that Trump doesn't like by government agencies.
Cutting a bunch of people from healthcare effectively deciding that many of them will die.

The bottom line is that life has very little value and everything is about corporate profits and keeping money in the wealthy dynasties in this country.
 
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Gordon, I doubt she could be any worse that the 'genius' we have in there now ........

The auto industry should do well. YOU GET A CAR YOU GET A CAR YOU GET A CAR!!!
 
I know not everyone here supports Our President but I wanted to list a few of the campaign promises he has kept for those of us who voted for him .
Has he accomplished everything? No but he has tried and continues to implement the things that got him elected.
I know there are a lot of you who do not support his policies or ideas , elections have consequences!! Maybe next time the Dems will nominate someone who is electable outside of the two coasts BOO HOO.
My 401K is on a tear , Tax relief is on the way, my stock investments are soaring, ect.ect.
Is President Trump perfect ?No, but I think he is trying his best to navigate the political waters and not afraid to bump heads with
the people running the crooked system( on both sides) that has been going on for decades.
I laugh as he plays the media like a cello, he has them so worked up on how he speaks , tweets, walks , looks that they are blind to the things he is doing everyday that should really concern them (as liberals) CNN and MSBC the network's , hollywood ect. are so blinded by hate they are getting trampled by his policy changes everyday

I am happy with my vote he is effectively bringing about the change that I support .

OK let the bashing begin I have wide shoulders.




Jobs and the economy

Passage of the tax reform bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts and repealing the Obamacare mandate.
Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.
A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.
A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.
Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.
Killing job-stifling regulations

Signed an Executive Order demanding that two regulations be killed for every new one creates. He beat that big and cut 16 rules and regulations for every one created, saving $8.1 billion.
Signed 15 congressional regulatory cuts.
Withdrew from the Obama-era Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of environmental regulations.
Signed an Executive Order cutting the time for infrastructure permit approvals.
Eliminated an Obama rule on streams that Trump felt unfairly targeted the coal industry.
Fair trade

Made good on his campaign promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
Opened up the North American Free Trade Agreement for talks to better the deal for the U.S.
Worked to bring companies back to the U.S., and companies like Toyota, Mazda, Broadcom Limited, and Foxconn announced plans to open U.S. plants.
Worked to promote the sale of U.S products abroad.
Made enforcement of U.S. trade laws, especially those that involve national security, a priority.
Ended Obama’s deal with Cuba.
Boosting U.S. energy dominance

The Department of Interior, which has led the way in cutting regulations, opened plans to lease 77 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico for oil and gas drilling.
Trump traveled the world to promote the sale and use of U.S. energy.
Expanded energy infrastructure projects like the Keystone XL Pipeline snubbed by Obama.
Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to kill Obama’s Clean Power Plan.
EPA is reconsidering Obama rules on methane emissions.
Protecting the U.S. homeland

Laid out new principles for reforming immigration and announced plan to end "chain migration," which lets one legal immigrant to bring in dozens of family members.
Made progress to build the border wall with Mexico.
Ended the Obama-era “catch and release” of illegal immigrants.
Boosted the arrests of illegals inside the U.S.
Doubled the number of counties participating with Immigration and Customs Enforcement charged with deporting illegals.
Removed 36 percent more criminal gang members than in fiscal 2016.
Started the end of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival program.
Ditto for other amnesty programs like Deferred Action for Parents of Americans.
Cracking down on some 300 sanctuary cities that defy ICE but still get federal dollars.
Added some 100 new immigration judges.
Protecting communities

Justice announced grants of $98 million to fund 802 new cops.
Justice worked with Central American nations to arrest and charge 4,000 MS-13 members.
Homeland rounded up nearly 800 MS-13 members, an 83 percent one-year increase.
Signed three executive orders aimed at cracking down on international criminal organizations.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions created new National Public Safety Partnership, a cooperative initiative with cities to reduce violent crimes.
Accountability

Trump has nominated 73 federal judges and won his nomination of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.
Ordered ethical standards including a lobbying ban.
Called for a comprehensive plan to reorganize the executive branch.
Ordered an overhaul to modernize the digital government.
Called for a full audit of the Pentagon and its spending.
Combatting opioids

First, the president declared a Nationwide Public Health Emergency on opioids.
His Council of Economic Advisors played a role in determining that overdoses are underreported by as much as 24 percent.
The Department of Health and Human Services laid out a new five-point strategy to fight the crisis.
Justice announced it was scheduling fentanyl substances as a drug class under the Controlled Substances Act.
Justice started a fraud crackdown, arresting more than 400.
The administration added $500 million to fight the crisis.
On National Drug Take Back Day, the Drug Enforcement Agency collected 456 tons.
Protecting life

In his first week, Trump reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy that blocks some $9 billion in foreign aid being used for abortions.
Worked with Congress on a bill overturning an Obama regulation that blocked states from defunding abortion providers.
Published guidance to block Obamacare money from supporting abortion.
Helping veterans

Signed the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act to allow senior officials in the Department of Veterans Affairs to fire failing employees and establish safeguards to protect whistleblowers.
Signed the Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act.
Signed the Harry W. Colmery Veterans Educational Assistance Act, to provide support.
Signed the VA Choice and Quality Employment Act of 2017 to authorize $2.1 billion in additional funds for the Veterans Choice Program.
Created a VA hotline.
Had the VA launch an online “Access and Quality Tool,” providing veterans with a way to access wait time and quality of care data.
With VA Secretary Dr. David Shulkin, announced three initiatives to expand access to healthcare for veterans using telehealth technology.
Promoting peace through strength

Directed the rebuilding of the military and ordered a new national strategy and nuclear posture review.
Worked to increase defense spending.
Empowered military leaders to “seize the initiative and win,” reducing the need for a White House sign off on every mission.
Directed the revival of the National Space Council to develop space war strategies.
Elevated U.S. Cyber Command into a major warfighting command.
Withdrew from the U.N. Global Compact on Migration, which Trump saw as a threat to borders.
Imposed a travel ban on nations that lack border and anti-terrorism security.
Saw ISIS lose virtually all of its territory.
Pushed for strong action against global outlaw North Korea and its development of nuclear weapons.
Announced a new Afghanistan strategy that strengthens support for U.S. forces at war with terrorism.
NATO increased support for the war in Afghanistan.
Approved a new Iran strategy plan focused on neutralizing the country’s influence in the region.
Ordered missile strikes against a Syrian airbase used in a chemical weapons attack.
Prevented subsequent chemical attacks by announcing a plan to detect them better and warned of future strikes if they were used.
Ordered new sanctions on the dictatorship in Venezuela.
Restoring confidence in and respect for America

Trump won the release of Americans held abroad, often using his personal relationships with world leaders.
Made good on a campaign promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Conducted a historic 12-day trip through Asia, winning new cooperative deals. On the trip, he attended three regional summits to promote American interests.
He traveled to the Middle East and Europe to build new relationships with leaders.
Traveled to Poland and on to Germany for the G-20 meeting where he pushed again for funding of women entrepreneurs.
 
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