The DON / redux

[Brad225]

Now your just trying to confuse people with the facts Rep.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the post. Suffice to say that actions you see as positive, many, including me, view in the opposite manner.

To cite two examples, gutting the EPA (and refusing to acknowledge the science behind climate change) is one. I really want coal to return as a major energy source. Just what we need.

The other one is "jobs and economy". 45 "inherited" a robust economy as a result of the efforts of the previous administration. For him to take "credit" is simply silly and factually unsupportable.

As I stated before, I really wanted him to succeed and move this country forward. Based on the first year, he has created more divisiveness and chaos than any other president in my lifetime.

My other major issue is character. It's pretty obvious to most that, based on his words and actions, he is an insecure, racially biased, narcissistic, compulsive liar not to mention his phobia against women accompanied by his now public (Access Hollywood) sexual predatory remarks. Maybe you are able to overlook and ignore these significant character flaws. I cannot.

Hope life is good with you and family.

Best,

Gordon

PS: Regarding Gorsuch, we all know the reason he was approved to be on the Supreme Court is because Mitchy and the boys changed the rules on the number of votes required for Senate approval from 60 to 51.

 

[timm]

Wow Repman..... Your 401k is doing well? You should be ashamed!!! .... I'd really rather focus on his lousy personality traits.... It worked so well for the Dems in the last election.... Trump could definitely implode himself - but, the Dems still don't get why they lost.... and they continue to focus on ANYTHING other than their programs and the way forward. They have lost their message because they keep watching the freak show.... and yes - you mention the 'electable' candidate. Could we please stop it with the Bernie people didn't vote because he didn't make it? No - they didn't vote because they didn't WANT Hillary..Maybe if he signs up for VP - they win - but he didn't want into her mess either!! ...back to the electable thing.... Oprah?? Seriously ... lol.... Another polarizing woman candidate quite frankly.... Lets face it -- 'Merica' is quite divided when it comes to this.... Here is the thing... if in 4 years people are feeling like the economy is great.... and they have done well.... It will be a tough sell having someone pushing a social agenda. What happens if nothing 'pops' from this investigation that has cost tax payers millions? Follow the trail.... I said it a long time ago - that all of this from the start - Jill Stein's recounts w Hillary's approval, Russia hacking the ballot boxes (that was out there), Electorate - vote your conscience, Rioting in the streets, Now Russian collusion, Trump's mental capacity...... it goes on and on -- I am sure I have forgot some things.... Are an attempt to de-legitimize this presidency....An attempt to essentially over-ride the democratic process we have. All of it with an agenda being pushed by ... I'll just call it.... 'The Machine'.....

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I think that the Democratic party has learned a few things.

Take a peek at this advertisement for a democratic candidate in a very red state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcjG2fK7kNk

 

[repman]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the post. Suffice to say that actions you see as positive, many, including me, view in the opposite manner.

To cite two examples, gutting the EPA (and refusing to acknowledge the science behind climate change) is one. I really want coal to return as a major energy source. Just what we need. Gordon I understand how people can have differences of opinion on this , I think our climate definitely is changing and I think man may have something to do with it but I think there is enough science out there to really show that the earth has gone through many changes over its history and that it may be more cyclical than anything. But I will be honest I have not studied it in depth . But have seen opposing views from scientists.

The other one is "jobs and economy". 45 "inherited" a robust economy as a result of the efforts of the previous administration. For him to take "credit" is simply silly and factually unsupportable. Fair enough point and there may be something to it , I never heard Bill ******* give up credit for creating the tech bubble. What I think is fair to say is that Trump has removed a lot of restrictions that have hindered our economy going forward. For example I know the company I work for will benefit greatly from the new tax laws and they have already started to pass some of that down to the employees. I think you are already seeing other large corporations giving bonuses to employees and investing more in American business. I think presidents overall take more credit than is due them when the economy is good and blame everyone else when its bad.I do think that this president has a better understanding of business than any other that has been in there and is spurring economic growth thru his policies.

As I stated before, I really wanted him to succeed and move this country forward. Based on the first year, he has created more divisiveness and chaos than any other president in my lifetime. I think the devisiveness comes from those that just can't believe he is doing what he said he would when he was campaigning, again sour grapes from the Dems who ran on liberal viewpoints and lost . No problem from my point of view I think he is doing what he promised me. The left always thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong (human nature) but people have different views on things based on their beliefs and they came out and voted. If the election was decided by the big states on the coasts the middle of the country and their values would be unheard the perfect reason that our founders decided on the electoral college to give everyone a voice not just the mega states.

My other major issue is character. It's pretty obvious to most that, based on his words and actions, he is an insecure, racially biased, narcissistic, compulsive liar not to mention his phobia against women accompanied by his public sexual predatory remarks. Maybe you are able to overlook and ignore these significant character flaws. I cannot. JFK , Bill *******, were also unfaithful husbands and womanizers. Bill ******* even had the gaul to engage with an intern. Look I don't condone infidelity, sexual impropriety in the workforce, but look at the hypocrisy going on now with liberal hollywood who called out Trump and are now having a new one fall almost everyday really where's their moral high ground ?
I wish President Trump did not have flaws but I agree he does (we all do) he is under more scrutiny for every word he says than any president I can remember. He has said and done things he should not be proud of for sure , so have I and I'm sure everyone on this forum. Those who live in glass houses. I do think he could act more presidential regarding his manner of speech for sure, he has made me cringe on more than one occasion.

Hope life is good with you and family. Gordon the fam is great thanks for asking and I hope you are enjoying your new home thanks for the honest and civil debate.

Best,

Gordon

PS: Regarding Gorsuch, we all know the reason he was approved to be on the Supreme Court is because Mitchy and the boys changed the rules on the number of votes required for Senate approval from 60 to 51.

Like Obama did also when he was President

 

[repman]

Gordon to your point On Gorsuch



How Democrats Paved the Way for the Confirmation of Trump's Cabinet
As the president’s picks run into trouble, Democrats find themselves stymied by a Senate rules change they engineered.


A little over three years ago, Senator Mitch McConnell stood on the Senate floor and issued a warning to the Democrats who then controlled the majority.

“I say to my friends on the other side of the aisle, you’ll regret this,” McConnell, then the minority leader, told them. “And you may regret it a lot sooner than you think.”

At the urging of Majority Leader Harry Reid, Democrats had just voted along strict party lines to change the rules of the Senate, deploying what had become known in Washington as “the nuclear option.” McConnell and his Republican colleagues were furious. Under the new rules, presidential nominees for all executive-branch position—including the Cabinet—and judicial vacancies below the Supreme Court could advance with a simple majority of 51 votes. The rules for legislation were untouched, but the 60-vote threshold for overcoming a filibuster on nearly all nominations was dead.

RELATED STORY

The Donald Trump Cabinet Tracker

As Donald Trump prepares to assume the presidency this afternoon flanked by Republican majorities in Congress, McConnell’s warning is looking more and more prescient. Trump may win Senate confirmation of his entire Cabinet, and while Democrats will oppose many of his nominees, it was their vote in November 2013 that helped pave the way for their success.

“Certainly it would have been easier to defeat them had the rules not changed,” Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer acknowledged on Thursday. The New York Democrat has mocked Trump’s nominees as the “Swamp Cabinet” and has spent the last few weeks denouncing the incoming president’s picks for their conflicts of interest, unpaid taxes, and their adherence to rigid conservatism. He’s accused Senate Republicans of trying to jam through the nominees with quick hearings and minimal vetting. “From top to bottom, it’s clear that Republicans were attempting to orchestrate a cover up of the president-elect’s swamp cabinet,” Schumer said. “Senate Democrats and the American people won’t stand for it.”

But can they stop it?

While Democrats plan to allow at least two of Trump’s nominees to be confirmed Friday after his inauguration, they have identified eight of his picks as “controversial” and are demanding either more information or a lengthy floor debate before a vote. Those include Rex Tillerson for secretary of state, Steve Mnuchin for treasury secretary, Senator Jeff Sessions for attorney general, Representative Tom Price for health and human services secretary, and Betsy DeVos for education secretary. Yet because of the rules change, Democrats can only stall for so long—probably a few weeks in total. They need at least three Republican defections to defeat any nominee, and so far not a single GOP senator has said they would vote against a Trump choice.

Schumer has voiced regret about the nuclear option since Trump’s election, telling CNN earlier this month that he had argued internally for keeping the 60-vote threshold not only for Supreme Court nominees but for the Cabinet as well.

Reid, who retired earlier this month, has no such regret. “I doubt any of us envisioned Donald J. Trump’s becoming the first president to take office under the new rules,” he wrote in The New York Times in December. “But what was fair for President Obama is fair for President Trump.”

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for your thoughtful, respectable responses.

I acknowledge that the nuclear option was previously used by the Democrats regarding the 60 vote threshold but they excluded Supreme Court nominees from this change. The rational being that these appointments are "lifetime" with far greater impacts (30 to 40 years of judicial rulings) than the nuclear option that the Dems passed.

Best,

Gordon

PS: Regarding climate change, from what I've read, the vast majority of scientists who have studied this phenomena agree that the temperatures are rising, the glaciers are melting, and sea levels will rise as a direct result of the airborne pollution being deposited in the stratosphere by the use of coal and other "dirty" fossil fuels. Yes there are dissenters but, from a percentage perspective, they are in the single digits.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

PS: Regarding climate change, from what I've read, the vast majority of scientists who have studied this phenomena agree that the temperatures are rising, the glaciers are melting, and sea levels will rise as a direct result of the airborne pollution being deposited in the stratosphere by the use of coal and other "dirty" fossil fuels. Yes there are dissenters but, from a percentage perspective, they are in the single digits.

It has been proven pretty conclusively. The question is how fast.

The main issue I see is that there have been projections over a pretty wide range. A consensus is forming but the naysayers will simply point to someone's projections that were too extreme and discount all of it.

There are a huge number of short term reasons why people don't want to believe this is happening.


Gordon, the really scary part about all of this is that NONE of the suggestions being put forth to help with this issue will do a damn bit of good, so I have trouble getting upset about it anymore. The real root cause is over population and until anyone takes a serious look at population control, we won't solve anything. Since that is as scalding a hot potato as exists today, no political party will touch it and we can have all the electric cars and ultra efficient cars we want, but there are way too many people on this planet. Until we fix that the human race is pretty well doomed at least in terms of any civilization anywhere near what we have right now.

 

[twich54]

Larry, I'm with you 100% in the matter of him behaving more 'Presidential' . As for the self proclaimed genius BS ......oh brother .

 

[Gordon Gray]

Gordon, the really scary part about all of this is that NONE of the suggestions being put forth to help with this issue will do a damn bit of good, so I have trouble getting upset about it anymore. The real root cause is over population and until anyone takes a serious look at population control, we won't solve anything. Since that is as scalding a hot potato as exists today, no political party will touch it and we can have all the electric cars and ultra efficient cars we want, but there are way too many people on this planet. Until we fix that the human race is pretty well doomed at least in terms of any civilization anywhere near what we have right now.

Mark, I agree with your assessment with one caveat, that being that the governing body can control what the populace does including industry and other large polluters. China has a massive population but the government can effect changes if they wish to do so. And it appears they are trying to do so.

However, that takes a political pro-active approach that is extremely difficult if not impossible, especially in this country. Human nature does not like change and, as a result, most political actions are reactive versus long term proactive.

Gordon

 

[Rich]

The real root cause is over population and until anyone takes a serious look at population control, we won't solve anything. Since that is as scalding a hot potato as exists today, no political party will touch it and we can have all the electric cars and ultra efficient cars we want, but there are way too many people on this planet.

Bingo! This, right here.
/thread

 

[repman]

Larry, I'm with you 100% in the matter of him behaving more 'Presidential' . As for the self proclaimed genius BS ......oh brother .

:clap: agreed Dave

 

[Gordon Gray]

Why are we having all these people from ******** countries coming here?

 

[Scumurculum]

Why are we having all these people from ******** countries coming here?

I agree. Why do we have all these Americans coming into Australia? :ROFL:

Just joking......

 

[Scumurculum]

I feel like I have killed this thread with a bad joke.

 

[amey01]

The real root cause is over population

I'll take it one step back.

The real root cause (of over population) is capatalism.

Not that I support any of the alternatives to capatalism, however capatalism does have one fatal flaw, and that is that it depends on infinite / unchecked growth in order to be successful.

If there is even just 3 months where we don't have positive growth (definition in Australia anyway - I'm sure the US is something similar), then we call it a "recession" and the entire economy goes to hell in a handbasket.

The growth that capatalism needs/requires is led by population growth. Build new things, mine more resources, make more stuff.........we can't continue to do that!!

Capatalism has worked very well for us. But we can't continue to have infinite growth in a finite world.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I'll take it one step back.

The real root cause (of over population) is capatalism.

Not that I support any of the alternatives to capatalism, however capatalism does have one fatal flaw, and that is that it depends on infinite / unchecked growth in order to be successful.

If there is even just 3 months where we don't have positive growth (definition in Australia anyway - I'm sure the US is something similar), then we call it a "recession" and the entire economy goes to hell in a handbasket.

The growth that capatalism needs/requires is led by population growth. Build new things, mine more resources, make more stuff.........we can't continue to do that!!

Capatalism has worked very well for us. But we can't continue to have infinite growth in a finite world.

That's true.

The birthrates are falling in many countries already, Japan is severely dropping in population, Italy and other countries as well.

In Japan adult diaper sales are currently higher than child diaper sales!

The only places where birth rates are high right now are places where the mortality rate is high, for example Africa and India.

That is the irony of the whole push to send illegal immigrants back. If it wasn't for them the population in the US would already be shrinking. The trickle down is empty homes, depressed the home construction market, plummeting home cost, less consumers, a devaluation of many stocks as companies year over year production numbers would need to drop. Etc etc...

 

[timm]

I agree. Why do we have all these Americans coming into Australia? :ROFL:

Just joking......

Lol. I missed this. We will see who comes from the '******** country' after the snow board competition tonight!!! Hahaha.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I know not everyone here supports Our President but I wanted to list a few of the campaign promises he has kept for those of us who voted for him .
Has he accomplished everything? No but he has tried and continues to implement the things that got him elected.
I know there are a lot of you who do not support his policies or ideas , elections have consequences!! Maybe next time the Dems will nominate someone who is electable outside of the two coasts BOO HOO.
My 401K is on a tear , Tax relief is on the way, my stock investments are soaring, ect.ect.
Is President Trump perfect ?No, but I think he is trying his best to navigate the political waters and not afraid to bump heads with
the people running the crooked system( on both sides) that has been going on for decades.
I laugh as he plays the media like a cello, he has them so worked up on how he speaks , tweets, walks , looks that they are blind to the things he is doing everyday that should really concern them (as liberals) CNN and MSBC the network's , hollywood ect. are so blinded by hate they are getting trampled by his policy changes everyday

I am happy with my vote he is effectively bringing about the change that I support .

OK let the bashing begin I have wide shoulders.




Jobs and the economy

Passage of the tax reform bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts and repealing the Obamacare mandate.
Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.
A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.
A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.
Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.
Killing job-stifling regulations

Signed an Executive Order demanding that two regulations be killed for every new one creates. He beat that big and cut 16 rules and regulations for every one created, saving $8.1 billion.
Signed 15 congressional regulatory cuts.
Withdrew from the Obama-era Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of environmental regulations.
Signed an Executive Order cutting the time for infrastructure permit approvals.
Eliminated an Obama rule on streams that Trump felt unfairly targeted the coal industry.
Fair trade

Made good on his campaign promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
Opened up the North American Free Trade Agreement for talks to better the deal for the U.S.
Worked to bring companies back to the U.S., and companies like Toyota, Mazda, Broadcom Limited, and Foxconn announced plans to open U.S. plants.
Worked to promote the sale of U.S products abroad.
Made enforcement of U.S. trade laws, especially those that involve national security, a priority.
Ended Obama’s deal with Cuba.
Boosting U.S. energy dominance

The Department of Interior, which has led the way in cutting regulations, opened plans to lease 77 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico for oil and gas drilling.
Trump traveled the world to promote the sale and use of U.S. energy.
Expanded energy infrastructure projects like the Keystone XL Pipeline snubbed by Obama.
Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to kill Obama’s Clean Power Plan.
EPA is reconsidering Obama rules on methane emissions.
Protecting the U.S. homeland

Laid out new principles for reforming immigration and announced plan to end "chain migration," which lets one legal immigrant to bring in dozens of family members.
Made progress to build the border wall with Mexico.
Ended the Obama-era “catch and release” of illegal immigrants.
Boosted the arrests of illegals inside the U.S.
Doubled the number of counties participating with Immigration and Customs Enforcement charged with deporting illegals.
Removed 36 percent more criminal gang members than in fiscal 2016.
Started the end of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival program.
Ditto for other amnesty programs like Deferred Action for Parents of Americans.
Cracking down on some 300 sanctuary cities that defy ICE but still get federal dollars.
Added some 100 new immigration judges.
Protecting communities

Justice announced grants of $98 million to fund 802 new cops.
Justice worked with Central American nations to arrest and charge 4,000 MS-13 members.
Homeland rounded up nearly 800 MS-13 members, an 83 percent one-year increase.
Signed three executive orders aimed at cracking down on international criminal organizations.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions created new National Public Safety Partnership, a cooperative initiative with cities to reduce violent crimes.
Accountability

Trump has nominated 73 federal judges and won his nomination of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.
Ordered ethical standards including a lobbying ban.
Called for a comprehensive plan to reorganize the executive branch.
Ordered an overhaul to modernize the digital government.
Called for a full audit of the Pentagon and its spending.
Combatting opioids

First, the president declared a Nationwide Public Health Emergency on opioids.
His Council of Economic Advisors played a role in determining that overdoses are underreported by as much as 24 percent.
The Department of Health and Human Services laid out a new five-point strategy to fight the crisis.
Justice announced it was scheduling fentanyl substances as a drug class under the Controlled Substances Act.
Justice started a fraud crackdown, arresting more than 400.
The administration added $500 million to fight the crisis.
On National Drug Take Back Day, the Drug Enforcement Agency collected 456 tons.
Protecting life

In his first week, Trump reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy that blocks some $9 billion in foreign aid being used for abortions.
Worked with Congress on a bill overturning an Obama regulation that blocked states from defunding abortion providers.
Published guidance to block Obamacare money from supporting abortion.
Helping veterans

Signed the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act to allow senior officials in the Department of Veterans Affairs to fire failing employees and establish safeguards to protect whistleblowers.
Signed the Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act.
Signed the Harry W. Colmery Veterans Educational Assistance Act, to provide support.
Signed the VA Choice and Quality Employment Act of 2017 to authorize $2.1 billion in additional funds for the Veterans Choice Program.
Created a VA hotline.
Had the VA launch an online “Access and Quality Tool,” providing veterans with a way to access wait time and quality of care data.
With VA Secretary Dr. David Shulkin, announced three initiatives to expand access to healthcare for veterans using telehealth technology.
Promoting peace through strength

Directed the rebuilding of the military and ordered a new national strategy and nuclear posture review.
Worked to increase defense spending.
Empowered military leaders to “seize the initiative and win,” reducing the need for a White House sign off on every mission.
Directed the revival of the National Space Council to develop space war strategies.
Elevated U.S. Cyber Command into a major warfighting command.
Withdrew from the U.N. Global Compact on Migration, which Trump saw as a threat to borders.
Imposed a travel ban on nations that lack border and anti-terrorism security.
Saw ISIS lose virtually all of its territory.
Pushed for strong action against global outlaw North Korea and its development of nuclear weapons.
Announced a new Afghanistan strategy that strengthens support for U.S. forces at war with terrorism.
NATO increased support for the war in Afghanistan.
Approved a new Iran strategy plan focused on neutralizing the country’s influence in the region.
Ordered missile strikes against a Syrian airbase used in a chemical weapons attack.
Prevented subsequent chemical attacks by announcing a plan to detect them better and warned of future strikes if they were used.
Ordered new sanctions on the dictatorship in Venezuela.
Restoring confidence in and respect for America

Trump won the release of Americans held abroad, often using his personal relationships with world leaders.
Made good on a campaign promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Conducted a historic 12-day trip through Asia, winning new cooperative deals. On the trip, he attended three regional summits to promote American interests.
He traveled to the Middle East and Europe to build new relationships with leaders.
Traveled to Poland and on to Germany for the G-20 meeting where he pushed again for funding of women entrepreneurs.

Basically, this is a whole lot about not much and most of these "accomplishments" are not what most Americans want. I spent about twenty minutes researching just the first paragraph of "accomplishments" and this is what I found...


Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
"He gets zero credit because he hasn't done anything. There's been zero change in economic policy," says Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics, a research firm. "This uptick is happening across the globe. It’s not just the U.S." Under President Obama, the economy grew an average of 2.1 percent a year, although he also had many quarters where growth exceeded 3 percent.

Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
It's difficult to tie those gains directly to President Trump's economic vision, however. On average, employers have added 170,000 jobs in each of the 10 months since Trump took office. That's slightly below the 196,000 per month pace during the comparable period in 2016, under President Obama. Fact Check - Scott Horsley

Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
Actually, the stock market has hit an all-time high in 30 of the last 54 months. In fact, the Dow has reached a new high, on average, once every seven days since fully recovering from the Great Recession in March 2013.

A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.The U.S. economy appears to be speeding up after a slowdown at the start of the year, repeating a pattern that goes back almost two decades. - Market Watch

A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.

But it will also hand over tens of millions of public dollars to businesses while reducing the government’s role in setting accountability standards. -Ian Kullgren and Marianne Levine for Politico. But Chris Lu, former deputy Labor secretary under former President Barack Obama, said on Twitter that the executive order "will remove gov't oversight of apprenticeship standards, which will reduce quality." Lu also said that the doubling of apprenticeship grants would require "a funding shift from other training programs" because the presidents 2018 funding request "is flat."

A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.

On Sept. 25, President Trump directed the Department of Education to annually commit at least $200 million of existing grant funds to activities that expand access to STEM and computer science education. The order makes clear that STEM education is an administration priority, although it contrasts with Trump’s budget request for fiscal year 2018, which called for the elimination of several DOEd programs that support STEM education.

Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.

This is one thing, pushed by his daughter, that looks like a good thing.

Killing job-stifling regulations

"The evidence shows that there is simply no truth to the idea that regulations kill jobs or stifle growth," said Eric Schaeffer, executive director of the Environmental Integrity Project. "In fact, regulations provide huge economic benefits to our society, with minimal, though generally positive, effects on jobs and productivity. On the other hand, the absence of regulation can have severe economic consequences, with perhaps the most notable example being the 2008 financial collapse."

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Unfortunately the back and forth on this is pretty pointless.

There is almost no common ground. If someone likes Trump they will find whatever articles they can that support their view and consider anything counter to that fake news. Likewise they'll complain that we read the MSM and are biased because of that. It's a losing battle.