Actually they support the Libertarian. And yes I think they got it right too. I was looking for the words to describe my dislike for Hillary and that was it.
The 2016 US Presidential Debate
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Actually they support the Libertarian. And yes I think they got it right too. I was looking for the words to describe my dislike for Hillary and that was it.
So then it comes down to voting for someone you don't agree with or someone who would be dangerous to the country.
Well I think both candidates possess the ability to be dangerous to the country. But you could always vote libertarian!!
Well I think both candidates possess the ability to be dangerous to the country. But you could always vote libertarian!!
I live in TN which neither Trump of Hillary is wasting time with. Trump has this state by a "yuge" comfortable margin. My vote has no influence here.
Can we all agree that November can't get here fast enough
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
To quote a Pink Floyd line, I've become comfortably numb.
The recent 3AM DT tweet storm about a former Miss Universe pageant winner put me over the top.
The recent 3AM DT tweet storm about a former Miss Universe pageant winner put me over the top.
So my brother put it this way. 'I want a president that my kid can look up to and be proud of'. So i asked him who the last president was he could say that about? His response was 'Obama. Even though I disagree with a lot of his policy, I think he is a good man '. And even though my brother is way more republican than I, he is sick and tired of Trumps childish remarks, his references to Rosie, his continual rants when anyone calls him out on anything, his references to Bills infidelity etc etc etc. what an easy target for Hillary he is. All she has to do is say taxes and the guy will then proceed to talk about taxes, a negative on himself, for a week!!
Let's go listen to some music and watch the baseball playoffs..
Pneumonic
Well-known member
You guys get to vote for old **** - who has proven herself to be dangerous via her actions, or new **** - who seems like he might be dangerous via what he says. How fortunate.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
That's a very enlightening post.
Any more profound observations or words of wisdom?
Any more profound observations or words of wisdom?
GaryG
Well-known member
You guys get to vote for old **** - who has proven herself to be dangerous via her actions, or new **** - who seems like he might be dangerous via what he says. How fortunate.
I like the way conservative talk show host Dennis Prager put it: Suppose you are in a room with precisely 2 exit doors. The first door is marked Hillary and above the door it reads "Man Eating Lion". The second door is marked Trump and above the door it reads "Possibly Man Eating Lion".
Gary
I think we all want positive change. The question is how do we get that change.
I know Hillary won't fix anything, but she won't break anything either.
I know Trump won't fix anything, but I see him as being much more likely to break things.
So in my mind a Trump presidency is playing Russian Roulette. There is no upside. The best case scenario is we get through it unscathed, at worse very bad things happen.
What I see are a bunch of people who are willing to put a gun to their head in the name of change and roll the chamber and see what happens.
Fortunately I see a slightly larger voting majority who see the danger of having that gun to their head.
I know Hillary won't fix anything, but she won't break anything either.
I know Trump won't fix anything, but I see him as being much more likely to break things.
So in my mind a Trump presidency is playing Russian Roulette. There is no upside. The best case scenario is we get through it unscathed, at worse very bad things happen.
What I see are a bunch of people who are willing to put a gun to their head in the name of change and roll the chamber and see what happens.
Fortunately I see a slightly larger voting majority who see the danger of having that gun to their head.
so Mark, based on your assumptions (to which I somewhat agree) why did we, a country of 320 million people allow ourselves to get to this point ? I have spoken to many people throughout my Western swing in the US the past couple of weeks and I was not surprised to hear many folks (Dems) not at all happy with Clinton but like you just said ................the lesser of two.
As Lee Iacocca asked..... "Where have all our Leaders gone" ?
good book BTW, I'm reading it again
As Lee Iacocca asked..... "Where have all our Leaders gone" ?
good book BTW, I'm reading it again
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Dave,
The easy answer, I think, is the current toxic nature of our political environment which causes people who would otherwise be very well qualified not to even try. I suspect they say, why bother and what a waste of time.
Chicken and egg scenario.
I think the big question is how, why this nation became a country of ideologues and unwilling to support those who would espouse a more moderate position (see above) and unable to discuss mutual problems in a constructive manner and do what is best for the nation as a whole and not simply satisfy their ideological base.
Gordon
The easy answer, I think, is the current toxic nature of our political environment which causes people who would otherwise be very well qualified not to even try. I suspect they say, why bother and what a waste of time.
Chicken and egg scenario.
I think the big question is how, why this nation became a country of ideologues and unwilling to support those who would espouse a more moderate position (see above) and unable to discuss mutual problems in a constructive manner and do what is best for the nation as a whole and not simply satisfy their ideological base.
Gordon
Pneumonic
Well-known member
You could do as many of us Canadians have done since our recent change election ... hope and pray it all works out.
Pneumonic
Well-known member
That analogy sounds more ominous I suppose.
There are a few reasons driving this. We have unrest because of automation. This was exacerbated by recession in 2009 when corporations cut back further, employees worked on average more hours with less job security and benefits than before. Unfortunately that trend was already happening, but it became more obvious to many.
Then we have shock jocks. I'll use Rush Limbaugh as an example since he was very prominent. Others were also praying on this anger and unrest and fueled more anger and unrest typically by blaming others and pointing fingers at individuals.
That anger was being channeled on both sides. You had some people blaming "the takers" and targeting ethnic groups and poor people and on the other side you had people blaming the top 1% with "Occupy Wall Street" etc...
One side said we are taxing these "job creators" too much and blamed giving too much to "the takers" for our hardships. The other side blamed the rich for being greedy and for scamming the rest of the country.
Both ideas hit a nerve with people and had statistics that "seem" to prove each side had high moral ground to stand on. Unfortunately people are emotional beings and you can find enough examples however statistically insignificant of just about anything to prove a point and outrage people. I'm not saying that we don't need immigration reform or reform on Wall Street.
However neither of these views is remotely close to the truth and masses of people are being manipulated by others who want to be in power.
So we get to where we are today. We the people have proven very easy to manipulate and the those who want control understand exactly what resonates with us and how to divide us and get us riled up and they use tactics that seem closer to psychological warfare distract us and gain support.
The trends in automation, globalization, and the consolidation of wealth, power and intellect won't be stopped by a president. These trends have been in place for many decades now. Unfortunately there are real problems to deal with. We have an very isolated "ruling class" that grow up segregated from how most of the country live. They don't understand why people can't just work hard and become rich because they see everyone around them succeeding. We have blue and white collar job automation happening at an exponential rate. Each year twice as many robots are put in place than the previous year affecting blue collar work and soon lots of minimum wage service positions. In addition white collar workers are being automated very quickly by computers. Manufacturing is coming back to the US very steadily, but there are not many jobs associated with it. Amazon puts in HUGE data centers that look massive, but once the buildings are in place there are only a handful of jobs created permanently.
What can a president do in the face of this? Nothing. People don't like change and aren't ready to deal with what is coming, yet. So a candidate running for office points to the problems and claims they can fix those problems and uses whatever works to manipulate the voters.
We are in a painful transitional period. The old rules aren't going to work anymore, but people haven't figured out what the new rules are.
Our current economic and social system is broken, but it is all we have to tide us over. Which means that we have a chunk of the population stuck in a poverty cycle, a shrinking middle class and a ruling class with more power and wealth than ever. Historically this is when a revolution would occur, but the drivers behind this are not the same as they have been historically. People are not being used as slave labor. They are simply not needed in the workforce anymore and we don't have a provision for that yet.
As time goes on this will become obvious and society will finally come to this realization and politicians will be able to talk about it. Until that time they will continue to promise to bring back jobs and bring back things that and keep us distracted while they work in the interest of large corporations and the wealthy people who support them.
good answer Mark, thank you ! ....... again, I see a lot of truth in what you said.
Thanks!
What is bizarre to me is that the vast majority of our country made up its mind about who they were voting for a while back. However we are all at the mercy of a small percentage of people who are all over the map. This is like Dancing with the Stars to them. To them the latest bit of gossip or latest new cycle is enough to change their mind on who they would vote for president. Pretty scary isn't is?
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