System #342 (Vantage, Montage, Grotto-i)

[Jimna]

I second the question on performance of the Emotive DAC. I had leave their forum before it came out for moral reasons so i have not heard, do tell please.

 

[MIQURA786]

JordanD and Jimna,

Thanks for the question. I have tried this DAC in 2 configurations.
1) As a Preamp. (Server, CD player, and Sonos) connected to the DAC and the DAC directly connected to the XPA-2.
2) As a standalone DAC. (Server, CD player, and Sonos) connected to the DAC and the DAC connected to the SC-37 via analog output and the SC-37 preamp output to XPA-2.

I preferred the all digital configuration in #1. As I noted earlier the DAC is silent in this setup and there is no background noise. The sound is richer with silkier highs and solid bass. There is definitely more air to musical instruments and voices. The midrange is also good but I found the midrange better in option #2. However, with option #2 the quieter passages in music are not completely quite like they are with the DAC operating as a digital preamp in the digital domain.

I have not had any issues with the XDA-1 possibly because I received the 2nd batch after the kinks with volume control had been worked out.

DacMagic vs. XDA-1: DacMagic is a Stereophile class B recommended product and I have no doubt that it is a very good DAC. I chose the XDA-1 over the DacMagic for the simple reason that it can used as a preamp and the fact that it can handle 24bit/192KHZ downloads. The DacMagic maxes out at 96K. While that may not be an issue for most people, it was something that I wanted.

After having listened to the XDA-1 for a couple of months I do like the sound of this DAC over the SC-37 DACs. In my opinion the sound will ultimately depend on how you use the DAC.

After trying this both ways, i.e. receiver DACs and standalone DAC, my recommendation would be to use a standalone DAC because of the overall improvement in sound.

Hope this helps!

 

[MIQURA786]

Hello everyone. It's been a while since I last posted an update. I have updated the pics of my system with the latest addition and some subtractions. I just bought the Oppo BDP-95. I have sold the Emo gear and am back to looking for an integrated amp or a power amp. I am mainly thinking of the Mcintosh MA6300, Cayin A50t, or Marantz PM-15S2. My other option would be to get Mcintosh MC275 with SC-37 acting as a preamp.

 

[MIQURA786]

System Update:
I recently added the Marantz AV-7005 pre/pro and the Emotiva XPA-5 to my system. The Marantz/Emotiva/Oppo/MartinLogan combination sounds great for movies and music. I am connecting the Emotiva via balanced cables from Monoprice for now. I have also tried running the Oppo directly into the Emotiva via balanced cables for 2-channel and the sound was scary good.

 

[MIQURA786]

Hi everyone,
It's been a while since I last posted here. Over the last several months I have made several changes to my system. I have replaced the Vantage with the Theos, Motif with the Stage, Depth-i with the Descent-i. I also went with an XPA-3 and Pioneer Elite VSX-53 combination as opposed to the AV-7005 and XPA-5 combo.

 

[garmtz]

What did you think about the change from Vantage to Theos? Was it a step forward you would say? What about going from Motif to Stage?

 

[JordanD]

Welcome to the Theos club

 

[MIQURA786]

Hello! I recently made some modifications to my system by adding a Sharp Elite 70", XPA-5, and Oppo BDP-105. I have also added additional room treatments in rear of the room where one my Montage is sort of stuck in a corner. The Panels in the back have made a difference. The front panels for some reason did not make any difference to the overall sound. Please see updated pics.

Comments are welcome! Thank you.

 

[danvu]

What're your reasons of switching around among the Emo amps? Just curious, what differences you hear going from Vantage to Theos? It seems like a lateral move to me.
Thanks.

 

[MIQURA786]

Dan,
Thanks for the question. I went with the Theos solely for the purposes of trying out the Theos. I had used the Vantages in my system for more than 2 years and wanted to hear the new panel which is slightly wider as well. I think the soundstage is slightly wider with the Theos but they don't play as deep as the Vantage. I could run the Vantage Large without any concern for loosing out any performance in the low bass but the Theos don't play as low as the Vantage. So with the Theos the mids and soundstage are better but i need the descent-i to supplement the low frequencies. You are correct it is a lateral move but I needed to experience it myself. I still love both of them.

Emotiva amp switching can be traced to the receiver/processor I have had in my system. When using receivers I was torn between using 2 or 3 channel Emotiva amps. When I purchased the AV-7005 by Marantz I bought the XPA-5. Then I sold the Marantz and went with the Denon 4311 and did not need the XPA-5 which was a mistake. Then it took me this while to get back to the XPA-5.

My wife thinks I have a problem and she might be right!

 

[ktchnman]

My 2 cents worth is that, especially with the proximity of your electronics to your speakers, that glass shelving is not the way to go. I noticed an immediate improvement in the tightness of the bottom end when I went to thick solid wood shelving with isolation footers. The first piece I tried that with was a s/s amp, and the difference startled me. I use the Maple platforms from Mapleshade, and on my secondary rack, which does have glass shelving, I put 2" maple platforms with what they call "iso-blocs" under any components I have on that rack (only a Nak cassette deck and a McIntosh Tube Tuner.
Pic is system # 461.

 

[danvu]

Dan,
I think the soundstage is slightly wider with the Theos but they don't play as deep as the Vantage. I could run the Vantage Large without any concern for loosing out any performance in the low bass but the Theos don't play as low as the Vantage. So with the Theos the mids and soundstage are better but i need the descent-i to supplement the low frequencies. You are correct it is a lateral move but I needed to experience it myself. I still love both of them.

Hmm, it's interesting that you found the Theos to be wider and have a wider soundstage. From reading their specs, I see they have similar width (actually the Vantage is a tad wider). The Theos has a taller panel and more vertical dispersion though so maybe that is what you've experienced, a taller/bigger soundstage. However, the Vantage has a lower crossover, hence better integration between panel and woofer, sturdier woofer, and built in amp so no wonder you hear the bass is better and deeper. Thanks for sharing your experiences with both models.

Emotiva amp switching can be traced to the receiver/processor I have had in my system. When using receivers I was torn between using 2 or 3 channel Emotiva amps. When I purchased the AV-7005 by Marantz I bought the XPA-5. Then I sold the Marantz and went with the Denon 4311 and did not need the XPA-5 which was a mistake. Then it took me this while to get back to the XPA-5.

My wife thinks I have a problem and she might be right!

LOL, any wives would think their husband have a problem if they do that, but I understand

 

[MIQURA786]

Dan - Thanks for the message. You are right in that the Vantage is slightly wider but the overall radiating area of the Theos is more than the Vantage. 405 square inches on the Theos compared to the 372 square inch on the Vantage. That could be contributing factor to my perceived wider/taller sound stage. The bass on the Vantage was definitely stronger due to the PoweredForce woofer.

 

[MIQURA786]

My 2 cents worth is that, especially with the proximity of your electronics to your speakers, that glass shelving is not the way to go. I noticed an immediate improvement in the tightness of the bottom end when I went to thick solid wood shelving with isolation footers. The first piece I tried that with was a s/s amp, and the difference startled me. I use the Maple platforms from Mapleshade, and on my secondary rack, which does have glass shelving, I put 2" maple platforms with what they call "iso-blocs" under any components I have on that rack (only a Nak cassette deck and a McIntosh Tube Tuner.
Pic is system # 461.

Thanks ktchman for a very nice suggestion. I never thought about that. I will try your suggestion out.

 

[MIQURA786]

Hi guy's - It's been a while since I posted on this thread. Still have the Theos but the entire setup is different than before. I will post some pictures tonight.

 

[bikerneil]

I enjoy seeing feedback from some of the experts on this forum, and I always learn something from the comments that are posted about "how do I improve my sound stage and musical experience?".

My setup is somewhat similar in that I have a 60" plasma tv screen between my two ML speakers on the front wall. My tv is a little higher on the wall, but it is similar to this setup. I would love to take my system to the next level of improvement, but I wonder how limited I am with that TV providing such a terrible source of reflection for the sound coming off the back of my ML's. I would hate to spend $15K on a new amp and pre-amp only to find that my weak link is still my tv. I have installed absorption panels behind my ML's (similar to this member's setup), and that helped - but I can't help but wonder for the long term, if really want to go to the next level - how much does the TV limit me?? Thoughts from others on this issue??

Thanks.

 

[Brad225]

I enjoy seeing feedback from some of the experts on this forum, and I always learn something from the comments that are posted about "how do I improve my sound stage and musical experience?".

My setup is somewhat similar in that I have a 60" plasma tv screen between my two ML speakers on the front wall. My tv is a little higher on the wall, but it is similar to this setup. I would love to take my system to the next level of improvement, but I wonder how limited I am with that TV providing such a terrible source of reflection for the sound coming off the back of my ML's. I would hate to spend $15K on a new amp and pre-amp only to find that my weak link is still my tv. I have installed absorption panels behind my ML's (similar to this member's setup), and that helped - but I can't help but wonder for the long term, if really want to go to the next level - how much does the TV limit me?? Thoughts from others on this issue??

Thanks.[/QUOTE

I would suggest it will have a very noticeable influence on the sound once eliminated.
Locate a pair of Owens Corning 705 fiberglass panels. They are 2"x24"x48" and can be covered with an old blanket or a cheap piece of cloth from a fabric store. Stand them up over the screen and take a listen. I you don't find any difference there certainly some other place in the room can use some absorption.
It won't cost much either.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I found a massive and measurable difference by moving my flat screen forward even with the panels.

My 65" TV is on a cabinet that has felt pads on it. I slide the cabinet with TV on it forward when I'm listening to music and the stereo imaging improves dramatically.

When I tested this they progressively sounded better until the TV came even with the panels. When it moved it forward from there the sound quality dropped.

 

[bikerneil]

Brad & Mark,

Thanks for that feedback, it's pretty much what I thought. It falls in to the general category of doing the best you can with room size, pre-existing conditions of the room, etc. This is not my main TV room, but I watch some TV in the room so getting rid of the TV is not possible, and moving it forward to the same plane as my ML's is not practical.

I am considering two options for dealing with the issue of reducing reflections off the TV screen:

1. Purchase of a new TV bracket that extends up to 32" in to the room. I have found one that will handle my heavy plasma screen. 32" forward from the wall will get the TV very close to the plane of the ML speakers.

2. I am familiar with the Owens Corning 705 panels as I have built my own wall panels from them. I may attempt to fabricate some sort of panel that I can hang over the TV when I want to listen to music.

Neither of the choices above is perfect, but I am guessing either would would help improve the quality of my sound stage, while also allowing me to keep the TV in the room. The nice thing about the special TV bracket is I can easily move the TV screen back against the wall when I like (this helps with WAF).

Thanks.

 

[MIQURA786]

Thanks for the great discussion. I am learning a lot from this. My way around this would be automatic retractable projector screen. I can put additional sound absorption panels where the TV would’ve been. Would that work.