System #204 (Vantage)

[User211]

Glen that just looks awesome! Bet it sounds great - and yeah - if you can keep your rack outside of the middle of your speakers, so much the better!

The trade off is longer cables and possibly interconnects, though.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Glen that just looks awesome! Bet it sounds great - and yeah - if you can keep your rack outside of the middle of your speakers, so much the better!

The trade off is longer cables and possibly interconnects, though.

Thank you Justin for the kind words. It definitely has enhanced my enjoyment quite a bit with this change. I never would have thought I was missing anything, but now I'm starting to get the miracle of stereo. I'm sure it could be improved, but this was a big step in the right direction. Speaking of it improving I spoke with Jim Smith yesterday over the phone, author of Get Better Sound, and have begun discussing with him to come out my way and voicing my system. After speaking with him I am very excited about this opportunity.:rocker: He seems to be a very genuine guy and is very easy to talk too. I sent him these same pictures so he could get an idea of what he would have to work with. I sure hope it works out because I just know there has to be even more magic that is just waiting to be exposed.

As for the longer cables, you are correct. In my case it was longer speaker wire so I could keep my amp in the rack and out of the soundstage. However, given the opportunity to have the best speaker cable in the world in my system if only I would move my rack back in the middle I would not hesitate to turn it down. That is how much better my soundstage sounds without the componets in the middle. Thanks again Justin.

Glen

 

[amey01]

This room is looking great! I'm so envious!

 

[churchill]

Great looking room Glen!

 

[repman]

Glen , The room looks fantastic , I think you did a great job on it

Larry

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Thanks a bunch guys for your comments. Most of this would not have been possible without the help of many on this forum. Tom sure did a good thing when he decided to start this forum.

On a sidenote I forgot to mention in my earlier post that the corner pieces are also new. They went up about 3 weeks before moving my rack and it helped slightly with the bass, but more so with the brightness. I guess I had too much flutter echo going on in the corners causing some hardness on some music. As for the bass there seemed to be a tightning of the mid bass/upper mid bass that cleared the midrange up a bit. This has been a fun project, but my wife is ready to throw me out the door. Maybe if things work out with having Jim Smith voice my system then I will definitely post the changes he made. It's funny how music I've heard many times and thought I was squeezing all there was out of my Vantages, but there was another couple of layers that were just waiting to be revealed. I guess it goes to show me that I should never think that I have arrived at the best possible sound, but rather humbly be happy with the improvements. Thanks again guys for your encouragement and kind words.

Glen

 

[repman]

Glen I am a bit ignorant of what you mean by voicing your system can you explain it to me?

Do you mean tweaking it ? kind of curious maybe we can get a two/fer deal from him is he local or are you paying him to come to Ga.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Glen I am a bit ignorant of what you mean by voicing your system can you explain it to me?

Do you mean tweaking it ? kind of curious maybe we can get a two/fer deal from him is he local or are you paying him to come to Ga.

Hey Repman, I'm not sure how to explain it very well but it mostly involves setting up your system so that it performs the best it can within the environment you have. He does not try to sale you equipment or other accessories but rather listens and adjust your speakers, subs, equipment rack, etc. Here's a link to someone here on this site that had him fly into Ohio and voice his system,start at post 190: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7730&highlight=jim+smith&page=14 . Also, here is a link to his website where you can purchase his book which I highly recommend: http://www.getbettersound.com/index.html . So yes in a way tweaking/properly adjusting your system. He does live in Ga. and answers emails quite regularly. Jim seems to be a real class act and I enjoyed talking to him over the phone last Saturday. As of right now nothing is set in stone with having him come out. He is now looking at the pictures of my room and we will go from there. But if I can afford his services then I will be extremely delighted. If you are interested in having him come to voice your system shoot him an email. It would be awesome if three or more people from this forum could have him out to hear and adjust there setups.

Glen

 

[engtaz]

Beautiful setup

 

[repman]

Glen thanks for the info , I appreciate it.

Larry

 

[FOUNTAIN]

I just got back my Ayre C-7xe cd player from the factory and it is now upgraded to MP (Minimum Phase). Actually it has been back for a couple of weeks now but I was on vacation and did not pick it up from my dealer until last Thursday. He was gracious enough to begin the break in process for me till I got back so it already had close to 100 hrs. on it when I first listened. As for my impressions, I would say it is definitely worth the $250 I paid and then some. There are a couple of differences that I am sure about, but since it's been a while it is hard to say for certain about some others. One bit I picked up on was the sibilance's. They seem more refined and smoother than before. There were certain songs that I could tell there was some type of raspiness in the "Sssss" sounds, but I am no longer hearing this like I was before. Also, the seperation between instruments is greater. I don't mean just a wider soundstage, but rather less overlap with better defined placement. So far I tend to have longer listening sessions with my cd player than previous, and almost as long as when I listen to vinyl. There must be something that has been reduced or removed that my ears find less fatiguing, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Overall I am very satisfied with the upgrade and consider it an extremely good deal. If you have an Ayre cd player and are considering the upgrade then I suggest you get in line to have it done. You won't be dissatisfied!:music:

On a side note, Jim Smith, the author of "Get Better Sound", will be at my home on July 25th for a 2 hr. evaluation of my system. I can't tell you how excited I am about having him over. Of course if he feels that my setup needs work to perform its best then I will schedule him to come out and voice my system at a later date. After the visit I will post the outcome and give a short follow up review. Part of me wants him to come by and say " You're there Man!", but another part wants him to find a way to take it further. Oh well, until then I will be listening quite a bit and just enjoy the music.

 

[JonFo]

...
On a side note, Jim Smith, the author of "Get Better Sound", will be at my home on July 25th for a 2 hr. evaluation of my system. I can't tell you how excited I am about having him over. Of course if he feels that my setup needs work to perform its best then I will schedule him to come out and voice my system at a later date. After the visit I will post the outcome and give a short follow up review. Part of me wants him to come by and say " You're there Man!", but another part wants him to find a way to take it further. Oh well, until then I will be listening quite a bit and just enjoy the music.

Glen, that sounds cool. Look forward to the feedback you'll get.

I'd also be interested to hear how many ML setups he's worked on over the years.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Glen, that sounds cool. Look forward to the feedback you'll get.

I'd also be interested to hear how many ML setups he's worked on over the years.

Thanks Jonathan and I will definitely ask him that. It would be an interesting tid bit to know.

Glen

 

[Calistyle91765]

I absolutely love the way your room looks.....

 

[FOUNTAIN]

I absolutely love the way your room looks.....

Thank you for the kind compliment. I wish I could say that it was done, but after meeting with Jim Smith, author of Get Better Sound, yesterday in my listening room I realize there is still alot of room for improvement. After I have finished digesting some of the things he noticed I am going to post them and then have him come out again to work on these areas. I'm sure when he returns there will be alot of moving around including some panels etc. but this will be a good adventure and I look forward to the opportunity to take my system to another level. After that I will repost pictures with a more detailed review of the before and after. Thanks again.

Glen

 

[Satch]

Hey Glen,

Really looking forward to finding out what suggestions were made...

Any insights on the Ayre V-5xe powering the M.L.'s?

Satch

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Hey Glen,

Really looking forward to finding out what suggestions were made...

Any insights on the Ayre V-5xe powering the M.L.'s?

Satch

Hello Satch,

I just love the combination of the Ayre V-5xe and Vantages. I auditioned at the store a McIntosh SS amp which was very nice as well, but I felt that the Ayre in this price range, along with my other Ayre componets, did a better job. It was definitely a step up in authority and dynamics over my previous MC-275 tube amp. Not that the tube amp was bad, but rather the Ayre just sounded more believeable thoughout the whole audio band including a very good midrange which I wanted to keep. While everybody has there own likes and dislikes, I think for the money Ayre is definitely worth auditioning.

Sometime this week I plan to post the strengths and weaknesses that Jim pointed out and also do a follow up when he comes back out to finish. Of course that won't be until next month sometime.

Glen

 

[Satch]

Hey Thanks!

I'm on my own here, the only other amp I had to compare was a Pioneer. ACK!

Since I put the NOS tubes in my Cary SLP-98P and hooked up the new Spires, I'm in heaven. Even the digital is sounding more analog.

It's really cool that you were able to get somebody with that much knowledge and experience to help you get the most out of your system. And even cooler that you're willing to share what you learn.

Satch

 

[FOUNTAIN]

System Evaluation

As I promised in an earlier post, below are the results from Jim Smith’s observations concerning my listening room and setup. Jim really is a class act and all of the critiques he offered were professional and honest. My wife and I enjoyed his visit to our house immensely and felt very comfortable talking with him. We are confident in his ability to take our system to the next level and to do so without buying anything new. While Jim has a lot of accolades to his name along with a list of references from many professionals in the business, he was very humble and patient with our questions. I’m sure our setup does not even come close in cost to the systems he normally works with, but he was extremely kind in his compliments and treated my wife and me as if we were millionaires looking to spend a fortune.(Which we are not!) The intent for his coming out was by design to be an evaluation of approximately 2hrs.with some discussion of a future time to have him back out if his services were needed. The only negative about this approach was not being able to solve the issues immediately, but rather me having to display some patience on my part and wait for our next meeting. :sad:

Jim graciously gave me permission to post some of his critiques of my setup on this forum and noted that there are several similarities between my issues and mgakathereaper. However let me add that there would have been much more work to be done if I had not read his book. It truly is a great value and a valuable reference to getting better sound. Even if I could not afford Jim’s services I would still enjoy a much more musical system due to the advice in his manual. I’m sure others that are more careful in their reading of his book, and follow his tips thoroughly concerning speaker placement, can be confident they will have a much more musical sounding system. So without further ado…..


1. Overall sound too soft, ill defined.

2. A bit muddy - bass "wooly".

3. No deep fundamentals - no authority in the bass. Piano sounds emasculated.

4. Need to re-evaluate bass performance, based on seating, speaker position, and - to a minor extent - separation.

5. One reason the sound is lacking may be that the bass drivers are in opposite acoustic polarity to the screens. We'll need to simply reverse it and see.

6. Speakers too close together (BTW - this is very rare - they are usually too far apart).

7. Too many absorptive wall treatments, sound is dead, lacking life.

8. 50-60Hz and down too low in amplitude.

9. Mid-bass peaks around 80-100 Hz.

10. Another peak around 200 Hz.

11. Another peak around 2-2.5 kHz, causing unwanted signature to string sound, and making loud female vocals a bit "shouty".

12. Extreme top end a bit down. May need to toe in speakers very slightly to restore it.

13. Slight but pervasive "awk" coloration, probably related to the 200 Hz peak.

14. Speaker tilt may need to be addressed.



My biggest concern was with #5. I wonder if others have noticed this issue with your Logan's. Is this by design from Martin Logan or are both my speakers unique in this regard? Just curious. The next visit with Jim will be in late August, and once we are finished I will post again about the differences he made along with some new photos. This will be a long wait for me, but I know it will be worth the wait.:rocker:
Glen

 

[User211]

Presumably 8,9 and 10 are statements made after 5 was corrected?

Anyway, after 5 was fixed, you should at least have some bass!!!

7 just goes to show that room treatments are difficult, and require skill to place, together with knowledge about what kind of treatments are needed in the first place. I'd wager there are so many out there who have, quite simply, got it wrong.

Of course, this is pretty ripe from someone who doesn't use any, hey Rich?

Good luck with it. Most of all, if you don't like the sound when he is happy, you must say so. Then you can work together to find out why not.