Summit X or Focal Maestro Utopia?

[RUR]

I checked the gon a couple of days ago. PB said they were sold.

Yes, a spectacular buy and that was the pair I was exploring several months ago.

I guess the MBL rep doesn't yet know they're sold. FWIW, he also said there was a pair of 101e's in minty shape for $7K less than PB was asking for the 101f's.

 

[bonzo]

Is there an inherent reason why I would have to EQ them?

The Kyron system does have EQ/DSP/room correction anyway.

I still didn't like them - although plenty of people did, that's for sure.

I have heard them. I thought the sound as very artificial and plasticky, as seems the case with small speakers which try to be everything (devialet phantom and kii are other examples)

 

[Gordon Gray]

Kedar,

Your experiences with many SOTA products is exceptional and your personal observations provide great insight that we would not otherwise have on the ML Forum. Thank you.

Having said that, I believe Ken is spot on wrt to the room being the main obstacle and the ability of well designed software to attenuate room influences and allow the music to be heard in a much purer, unaltered state.

Gordon

 

[bonzo]

Kedar,


I believe Ken is spot on wrt to the room being the main obstacle and the ability of well designed software to attenuate room influences and allow the music to be heard in a much purer, unaltered state.

Gordon

I guess you should realize that software doesn't make a cone sound like a planar or horn, and vice versa. Note my praise of Marty's system which uses DSP. Then note that the most ardent fans of DSP would advise you to get the physical elements right before applying DSP. Software also won't defy physics and make small speakers like Kyron or Kii move as much air as large speakers. Suggest you try listening to some of the horns that I mentioned which Ken hasn't, and if you think they are not good enough, fine.

 

[amey01]

small speakers like Kyron or Kii move as much air as large speakers. Suggest you try listening to some of the horns that I mentioned which Ken hasn't, and if you think they are not good enough, fine.

Kyron is not a small speaker Kedar - Gaia is easily 6" tall.

 

[bonzo]

Kyron is not a small speaker Kedar - Gaia is easily 6" tall.

Sorry I should specify it's the Kronos that was at Munich (the smaller model)

 

[georgehifi]

Looking at this impedance/phase angle graph, there are heavy EPDR loads at 250hz and again at 3.75khz these types of loads would better suit amps with no output transformers.
Solid state with good current delivery (eg: almost doubling their wattage down to 2ohms) eg earlier Krells an such with bi-polar outputs.

PS: In addition. Even the Focals would demand the same type of amp, see graph


Cheers George

 

[sb6]

GG, I totally agree with you. I have recently been demoing, top of the line Raidhos, Focal Maestros, Rockports, and all bore me. They either lack something, or struggle with the room. There is almost no proper room integration with these cones, with each owner thinking he has got it right. i have also started demoing MBLs now. Tried the 111 with the class D amp, the opsilon integrated, and then the 101s with the class A. I have some more demos left, I need to get one final thing I am looking for on tone. But as of now, I will go either for the 116 or back to panels in the medium term, with big horns in the long term.

It is extremely hard to beat a Logan with a cone. You need tons of money and a perfect large room. and at that price point you are anyway entering the realm of big horns, so cones become pointless. The only good cone set up, and that too a line array, I have seen is Marty's and that required an excellent room, years of matching components, and DSP

Bonzo, you must not have heard these cone speakers with good systems, lack of system synergy and/or poor room treatment. You seem to focus on the immersive experience of dipoles. If that's what you're after, then I'd think MBLs or German Physiks would do the trick. Both are more dynamic, more immersive, better balanced and better quality (IMO) than MLs (also more $). YMMV....

 

[bonzo]

Bonzo, you must not have heard these cone speakers with good systems, lack of system synergy and/or poor room treatment. You seem to focus on the immersive experience of dipoles. If that's what you're after, then I'd think MBLs or German Physiks would do the trick. Both are more dynamic, more immersive, better balanced and better quality (IMO) than MLs (also more $). YMMV....

The electronics were SOTA and I heard them in multiple set ups. I am now focusing on auditioning MBLs and Vivid giyas. The Giya is a good speaker but seems tough for most rooms. Will see if I get a DSPed audition. The MBLs are very good but I have to confirm something on tonality. I have so far heard them with Ypsilon hybrids, MBL Class D, MBL class A (which was really good), and planning with Spectral, Boulder, Halcro and Karan. Let's see how the dems go. I do listen to gear in multiple set ups and rooms without ruling them out or in.

I am almost certain I am headed for MBLs or back to panels over the medium term (5 years). I would like to hear a well-set up Dali Megaline with subs before making up my mind, as I could then replicate Marty's system to some extent.

Long term there is no doubt. Trios with bass horns or the Western electric mono.

 

[beek]

The electronics were SOTA and I heard them in multiple set ups. I am now focusing on auditioning MBLs and Vivid giyas. The Giya is a good speaker but seems tough for most rooms. Will see if I get a DSPed audition. The MBLs are very good but I have to confirm something on tonality. I have so far heard them with Ypsilon hybrids, MBL Class D, MBL class A (which was really good), and planning with Spectral, Boulder, Halcro and Karan. Let's see how the dems go. I do listen to gear in multiple set ups and rooms without ruling them out or in.

I am almost certain I am headed for MBLs or back to panels over the medium term (5 years). I would like to hear a well-set up Dali Megaline with subs before making up my mind, as I could then replicate Marty's system to some extent.

Long term there is no doubt. Trios with bass horns or the Western electric mono.

Why not the big Soundlabs?

 

[bonzo]

Why not the big Soundlabs?

I heard the new Ultimate series, and an old A1. I heard a signature sound that I was not impressed with. 1, the sound is too large to be natural. The bass though it goes low, due to lack of cabinet excursion sounds not right to me. Maybe they sound right in an auditorium size room, not sure. I prefer the ML hybrids by a long way. I also prefer the ML and Quad tone to a Soundlabs tone, though Quads lack in dynamics and bass. Also the Analysis Audio which is full range planar and the most natural sounding of the planars, great bass for classical (not for rock). I will go for an AA or ML hybrid in planars, main consideration is that AA has poor resale value.

 

[beek]

I heard the new Ultimate series, and an old A1. I heard a signature sound that I was not impressed with. 1, the sound is too large to be natural. The bass though it goes low, due to lack of cabinet excursion sounds not right to me. Maybe they sound right in an auditorium size room, not sure. I prefer the ML hybrids by a long way. I also prefer the ML and Quad tone to a Soundlabs tone, though Quads lack in dynamics and bass. Also the Analysis Audio which is full range planar and the most natural sounding of the planars, great bass for classical (not for rock). I will go for an AA or ML hybrid in planars, main consideration is that AA has poor resale value.

curious what amps were you hearing?

 

[bonzo]

curious what amps were you hearing?

The old one had a Krell FPB 600, the new one had those Bel Canto monos 1000w. Not a fan of BC but the signature sound across both was the same, which is what put me off. I can go to listen to a modded A1 Px with AR Reference but not at top of want to hear list right now. Might do that next summer or so.

 

[User211]

As I said, I have listened to them. Horns, for good or ill, sound like horns.

/end

A well setup pair of Trios and bass horns in a decent, large room just sound like a freakin' awesome set of speakers, Ken. No disrespect, of course. Way up there and better than most of the world's best, in my opinion.

I've said it a few times and here, I know. But it just needs saying, cos it is true

 

[bonzo]

They sound great in a 30 sq m. room as well. Planning to listen to them next weekend with airtight and audio note.

Henk couldn't make the apogee grands dem tomorrow, now I can't till Jan

 

[User211]

Bad news on the Grands

Jerry liked the Accuphase amps a lot. We're pretty much convinced they're the best yet on the Interstellas (he's heard a lot of other options on these and the previous Duettas). As is Gillian.

 

[RUR]

A well setup pair of Trios and bass horns in a decent, large room just sound like a freakin' awesome set of speakers, Ken. No disrespect, of course. Way up there and better than most of the world's best, in my opinion.

I've said it a few times and here, I know. But it just needs saying, cos it is true

Just this morning I reminded the gent who calibrated a local guy's Trinnov + Trios setup that we needed to pay him a visit so I could hear the results. We'll see if he follows through this time..... At CEDIA I met another fellow Trinnov owner who's using Trios in a ~20 channel HT(!), but he lives in Houston and was/is GU for demo purposes.

Thus far, I've only heard them at one or two shows where they did *some* things well.

 

[User211]

Just this morning I reminded the gent who calibrated a local guy's Trinnov + Trios setup that we needed to pay him a visit so I could hear the results. We'll see if he follows through this time..... At CEDIA I met another fellow Trinnov owner who's using Trios in a ~20 channel HT(!), but he lives in Houston and was/is GU for demo purposes.

Thus far, I've only heard them at one or two shows where they did *some* things well.

Ken they need the bass horns. All bets are off without those.

 

[RUR]

Ken they need the bass horns. All bets are off without those.

Neither setup uses the bass horns. The Houston owner is using 4 ea 2x15" cone subs. The local guy is using what was described to me as "an Avantgarde woofer" which "looks something like the bottom driver in the Duos", but "definitely not the Basshorn".

Maybe I'll skip it since, you know, it won't measure up to others' purely subjective ideal.

 

[bonzo]

Ken, you should just look at their frequency curve to see if you like it - no need to visit

Justin, Keith (purite audio) actually bought the kii speakers without listening to them because he read they were the best measuring speakers