Summit X is official!

[Cherian]

Let me see if I understand. A few of you are complaining because ML is making their products better? Is this not the nature of the beast? Computers double in speed and half in cost every 18 months but I don’t see anyone complaining about this? It is what companies must do to stay fresh. Even if it is possible sometimes upgrade kits do not make financial or marketing sense. I can understand why ML went this rout. The Summits are 4 years old not and are due for an update. Companies must design and market new products to compete in the business world. This is just a fact.

 

[houstonshark]

With the bargains out there on Audiogon right now, you can buy the ten thousand dollar pre or power amp for $4500-5500, and that's going to offer up a lot more sound, also leaving you happy with your investment in Summits.

Agreed, unless the "upgrade" is some revolutionary advancement you would be far better off spending money on upgrading the various other components in your system. If your electronics, cables, acoustic treatments, etc don't need upgrading (as I'm sure next whiner about the upgrade path will point out because they have the perfect amp, preamp, source components, etc) then you possibly have the wrong speaker altogether in the Summit.

I think I can pretty confidently say that the Summit in the majority of systems is FAR from the weakest link and we all know what your system is only as good as...

The bottom line is that Martin Logan doesn't OWE anyone an upgrade so (some of you) Summit owners need to quit acting like they do. You have a great speaker, enjoy it!

 

[Gordon Gray]

My oh my. We are a passionate group.

And that, IMHO, is a very good thing.

Is anyone aware of another high end manufacturer internet club that exhibits such emotion when a new or upgraded product is introduced?

Look what you've done Tom. It's all your fault. The kids are very excited.

GG

 

[aliveatfive]

If you really want to make your Summits sound better, invest in better electronics and room treatment. They are still phenomenal speakers.

While I'm sure the Summit X will incorporate what ML has learned from developing the Spire and CLX, I'd still bet a case of whatever expensive wine you like to drink that the diff between the two will not be as much as what you would get moving up to better gear driving the Summits.

With the bargains out there on Audiogon right now, you can buy the ten thousand dollar pre or power amp for $4500-5500, and that's going to offer up a lot more sound, also leaving you happy with your investment in Summits.

I'm already using an ARC Ref 3 preamp, an ARC Ref 110 power amp, an ARC PH 7 phono amp and my room is already acoustically treated. What would you suggest I upgrade to?

 

[David Matz]

I'm already using an ARC Ref 3 preamp, an ARC Ref 110 power amp, an ARC PH 7 phono amp and my room is already acoustically treated. What would you suggest I upgrade to?

FM acoustics + CLX

 

[Bernard]

Let me see if I understand. A few of you are complaining because ML is making their products better? Is this not the nature of the beast? Computers double in speed and half in cost every 18 months but I don’t see anyone complaining about this? It is what companies must do to stay fresh. Even if it is possible sometimes upgrade kits do not make financial or marketing sense. I can understand why ML went this rout. The Summits are 4 years old not and are due for an update. Companies must design and market new products to compete in the business world. This is just a fact.

Exactly. I fail to see what the fuss is all about.

 

[eknuds01]

Have to agree with Cherian, too. This company has a history of releasing upgraded models every few years:

Aeon (2001-2003)
Aeon i (2003-2006 (?) - not sure when they stopped making that one)

Ascent (2000-2003)
Ascent i (2003 - to 2005 or 2006 - same as above)

Then you had the Aerius and Aerius i as well not to mention depth and depth i and so on. You could probably make the argument that the difference between the Ascent and Ascent i (and Aerius and Aerius i) were not all that great and the sound between the two is very similar. If you look at the specs all info from our club's product line thread section) the Aeons are nearly identical. I wasn't a forum member way back then, so I don't know if there was a similar argument to made in that the difference between the Aeon/Aeon i was really all that substantial.

I could see someone being upset if they were releasing new models every year as that would really dilute the product line. I did read over Jerry's post, and on the surface his complaint has some merit if the only changes were manifested in a few printed circuit boards. On the other hand, sending the speakers back to ML to get the same upgrade would cost a small fortune. Also, I don't think ML (or any speaker company for that matter) has ever offered an upgrade 'kit' where hardware is removed and replaced with better stuff. I am not sure if there's some liability (messing with electronics can, at times, be dangerous).

Erik

 

[DrJRapp]

Jerry -

Since it seems that the primary difference between the Summit and the Summit X is in the crossover, I wonder if it would be possible to reverse-engineer a new pcb based on the board in the new model. I can imagine this being offered in a publication such as The Audio Amateur. I doubt the cost of putting together a board such as this would be much more than a few hundred bucks.

BTW - I would have no objections to paying $2,500 or so to upgrade IF the sound of the new speaker were demonstrably better than the sound of the old speaker. I cannot fathom spending 14 grand for essentially almost the same speaker that I purchased a few years ago for 10 thou.

One would need MLs permission to "reverse engineer" the proprietary X over and other parts unless one were to make it different enough to not run afoul of ML's patents and other intellectual property rights.

 

[DrJRapp]

My oh my. Is anyone aware of another high end manufacturer internet club that exhibits such emotion when a new or upgraded product is introduced?

GG

I don't know if you would consider Rotel as high end, but things tend to get wild over there also. I once wrote a review of Rotel's newly introduced RMB1077.. their first digital HT multichannel amp. If my memory serves me right we had approximatly 30,000 hits and 350 responses on that one in two weeks. If I remember correctly JoeyV was a Rotel owner then, and jumped into that frey also.

 

[tonepub]

I'm already using an ARC Ref 3 preamp, an ARC Ref 110 power amp, an ARC PH 7 phono amp and my room is already acoustically treated. What would you suggest I upgrade to?

You're one of the rare ones... You've got a pretty darn good system there.

When you get to that level, everything else you do is going to be incremental
unless you make a major speaker upgrade. I don't think going from Summit to Summit X would be a major upgrade. There's still room to go in your analog front end, there's some big upgrades beyond the PH7, but for amp and preamp the Ref 3 and Ref 110 are definitely top of the heap.

Rumor has it that ARC is considering another Ref phono pre, but according to Dave Gordon at ARC, it's still a rumor at this time....

If you are willing to step outside of the ARC fold, there are a few phono preamps that are still a pretty big jump. With the setup you currently have, you'd be able to hear it easily...

The only problem with where you are now, is that any major improvements are going to be very expensive! Good place to be!

 

[FISH_MAN]

I don't know if you would consider Rotel as high end, but things tend to get wild over there also.

the top of the food chain they are not but for the price Rotel does a really nice job.gotta love the gateway drugs

 

[robertawillisjr]

I'm already using an ARC Ref 3 preamp, an ARC Ref 110 power amp, an ARC PH 7 phono amp and my room is already acoustically treated. What would you suggest I upgrade to?

Sounds like you are ready for the CLX:ROFL:

 

[JonFo]

One would need MLs permission to "reverse engineer" the proprietary X over and other parts unless one were to make it different enough to not run afoul of ML's patents and other intellectual property rights.

Cough, Cough, hum, really?

Not that hard to rip out a crossover and use something better, like say an external active crossover and do all the tricks and more.

Trust me, if one has the know how, it's not that hard.

 

[JonFo]

If you really want to make your Summits sound better, invest in better electronics and room treatment. They are still phenomenal speakers.
...

Amen to that!

Especially room treatments.

Then a processor with Audyssey Pro capabilities. Way better results than the difference between the X and non-x Summits.

 

[DrJRapp]

Cough, Cough, hum, really?

Not that hard to rip out a crossover and use something better, like say an external active crossover and do all the tricks and more.

Trust me, if one has the know how, it's not that hard.

I know it's not that hard, but it presents an ethical delemma. Even the functional concept of this unique crossover is the intellectual property of ML. Just because one can get away with theft doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

 

[JonFo]

I know it's not that hard, but it presents an ethical delemma.

Well, yes if you are replacing it with another passive that is a 'clone' of the X version.

But unless there is a patent on the configuration of the crossover per se (which I doubt), then a replication with an active might be a path for some.

 

[jtwrace]

use something better, like say an external active crossover and do all the tricks and more.

Trust me, if one has the know how, it's not that hard.

The Summit JF coming soon... It will come complete with an external crossover preset with all crossover points with detailed instructions to "tweak" to YOUR room. The Summit JFX version includes all the necessary room measuring equipment for proper setup. Yes, the extended spikes are included in both packages.

more details coming.:ROFL:

 

[Scumurculum]

I know it's not that hard, but it presents an ethical delemma. Even the functional concept of this unique crossover is the intellectual property of ML. Just because one can get away with theft doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Pardon me if I am missing a point here, but why would there be an ethical problem to rip out a summit crossover and use something different?

The owner of the speakers would have the right to mod and do whatever they want to the speakers

It would only be and ethical problem or theft it was reverse engineered and then used to develop a competing prouct.

 

[DrJRapp]

It would only be and ehtical problem or theft it was reverse engineered and then used to develop a competing prouct.

That is what was suggested earlier on. Create an "aftermarket" product by reverse engineering the Summit X crossover.

 

[tonepub]

While it might be an ethical dilemma, I don't know that I'd want to tear apart an 11 thousand dollar pair of speakers and void the warranty. I've done it with my Magnepan 1.6's, but those are only 1600 dollar speakers.

Something goes kaboom, I don't think ML would be fixing anything under warranty. But if you are out of warranty and feel like a mad scientist, anything is possible...