tonepub
Senior Member
Maybe everyone is having so much fun, they don't want to sit down and write about it just yet!
That'd be my guess.....
That'd be my guess.....
SUMMIT X in the House
- Thread starter DaVinci Media
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Sorry everyone, the week got away from me. I have spent some time now listening to the SummitX in both music and movies, and have also an AB comparison with Spire. Remember I am not a reviewer but here are my impressions.
First, this is a fantastic speaker at the price. I have listened to many other speakers and I would put these up against almost anything I have heard. It has a very precise sound without ever becoming fatiguing. It is warm and dynamic (yes really) with a strong presence throughout the entire frequency range. I listened to acoustic, rock, heavy vocals, orchestral, and all were handled with accuracy and conviction. I have no hesitancy recommending these speakers.
Now, the SummitX versus the Spires. I believe the main difference here is the presence of the SummitX. It seems to be more forward and powerful. This is surely because of the extra low end power, but I think it also comes through with a better integration with the panel that brings that power into the upper bass range. Can you accomplish this by adding subs to the spire? Yes and no. I think you can get that added low end, but I think you will have a very difficult time integrating the sub precisely.
Thats my 2 cents, I welcome any and all to come and have a listen for themselves.
First, this is a fantastic speaker at the price. I have listened to many other speakers and I would put these up against almost anything I have heard. It has a very precise sound without ever becoming fatiguing. It is warm and dynamic (yes really) with a strong presence throughout the entire frequency range. I listened to acoustic, rock, heavy vocals, orchestral, and all were handled with accuracy and conviction. I have no hesitancy recommending these speakers.
Now, the SummitX versus the Spires. I believe the main difference here is the presence of the SummitX. It seems to be more forward and powerful. This is surely because of the extra low end power, but I think it also comes through with a better integration with the panel that brings that power into the upper bass range. Can you accomplish this by adding subs to the spire? Yes and no. I think you can get that added low end, but I think you will have a very difficult time integrating the sub precisely.
Thats my 2 cents, I welcome any and all to come and have a listen for themselves.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Twice the price?
Hi Shawn,
I would assume the original Summit has the same performance advantage, in the "weight" department, over its one woof sibling.
So the obvious question is:
Given the current market value for a used Summit, is the "X" worth twice the price?
GG
PS: Responding to David's post, I don't doubt that the "X" is a great sounding speaker. Look at its predecessor. My question goes to price point and value thereof.
Hi Shawn,
I would assume the original Summit has the same performance advantage, in the "weight" department, over its one woof sibling.
So the obvious question is:
Given the current market value for a used Summit, is the "X" worth twice the price?
GG
PS: Responding to David's post, I don't doubt that the "X" is a great sounding speaker. Look at its predecessor. My question goes to price point and value thereof.
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robertawillisjr
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David Matz
Well-known member
Gordon,
I agree with you. My statement was made in jest. I imagine the X is an awesome speaker. However, like you, I am interested in "dramatic" improvements, not "significant enhancements". Considering one can create a reference room like Burke has for approx. $1K and purchase the Spire (+ sub), I would hope the Summit X be damn good. But venturing a guess, it is probably not that good to justify the cash.
Having heard the CLX on a couple of occasions, the CLX improvement over the rest of the line is "dramatic" to my ears .
Best regards,
David
David Matz
Well-known member
Shawn,
Thanks for sharing. By the way your analysis is very valuable. Not all of us have the gift of Jeff, Roy Gregory, or Jonathan Valin to "poetically" describe what they are hearing.
Have you had a chance to compare the X to the CLX?
I wonder if the purpose of the X is to steer people to see the value of the Spire and CLX.
Thanks
Best regards,
David
With regards to the SummitX vs Summit. The Summit when it was discontinued retailed for $11,000. This SummitX is $14,0000. I think the X is worth that difference. I also think if you were lucky enough to get a pair of Summits on closeout for less than half the cost of the new SummitX you got the deal of the decade.
Finally trying to get down to hear the Summit X on Wednesday. I am going to bring some familiar music with loads of mid-bass (workout that panel-woofer xover range). I will see what I can report back with and try to compare it to whatever else he has on the floor.
Thx davincimedia and in advance; thx tsmooth.
Looking forward to more impressions as they become available.
Strange that noone has come forward as the first known owner of a pair yet, there's always someone that will pay anything just to be first.
I really hope my finances are flexible enough to fit a pair of Summit X and a Stage in the near future
Looking forward to more impressions as they become available.
Strange that noone has come forward as the first known owner of a pair yet, there's always someone that will pay anything just to be first.
I really hope my finances are flexible enough to fit a pair of Summit X and a Stage in the near future
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Within this Forum, I would be very surprised if any current Summit owner would trade up to the "X" at price tag of $7K+. I think folks who participate in this Forum are very acute to price / performance considerations.
Looking at Shawn's response comparing the two, I guess he's saying that the "X" is worth an additional $3K. That's a far cry from $7K+.
I wish ML the best with the "X" but I know, given the cost of the upgrade, I have absolutely no interest in pursuing. And frankly, given my understanding of the physical differences (improvements) between the two, I would have a difficult time justifying the $3K bump.
GG
PS: Given the fact that Shawn is an ML dealer, I do appreciate his observations and fully understand if he chooses to not comment further on the "value" question. Thank you Shawn.
Looking at Shawn's response comparing the two, I guess he's saying that the "X" is worth an additional $3K. That's a far cry from $7K+.
I wish ML the best with the "X" but I know, given the cost of the upgrade, I have absolutely no interest in pursuing. And frankly, given my understanding of the physical differences (improvements) between the two, I would have a difficult time justifying the $3K bump.
GG
PS: Given the fact that Shawn is an ML dealer, I do appreciate his observations and fully understand if he chooses to not comment further on the "value" question. Thank you Shawn.
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My experience with the Summit X
I was able to pull away and get down to DaVinci Media tonight to audition the Summit X. I am not a reviewer by trade (HA) but I have considerable time with speakers like the CLX, Spire, Prodigy, Revel Salon, etc:music:.
The speakers were fed with all Mark Levinson equipment. The source was No 51, a beast of a CD player. The preamp was No 326S, feeding into a No 433 amp. This was all connected by reference Nordost cabling.
The speaker itself was very impressive visually. The new spikes allow a rear-rake of 11 degrees all the way to a forward rake of 1 degree. It is almost like they took notes on the DIY summit spikes. The Summit X also has 3 adjustable lights on subwoofer box, so you can go from a dark listening room to bit of ambient lighting depending on your needs. The box is much larger then the Spire, but the design is similar.
They were setup like you see below. Flashlight techique, with a large distance from the front and side wall. The couch was probably about 60% of the distance from the front wall. From what Shawn said, they had about 60 to 70 hours of play on them.
The two CDs that I brought with were O.A.R. “In Between Now and Then” and Sara Bareilles “Little Voices”. This was due to the fact I was familiar with both, allowing me a baseline. These are the most played CDs on my bi-amped Vista rig and also what I listened to previously when I listened to the Spire.
The first CD I played was from O.A.R. They have a bit of a Dave Mathews Band feel; many passages with electric and acoustic guitar, saxophones, hint of tambourine, and a good amount of solid drum work. There is a very wide soundstage to this recording, especially with some of the backup vocals.
The first song I queued up was #3 “Risen”. It really sounded amazing. This speaker reproduced the most realistic saxophone I have heard; the only comparison I can make is to the CLX in that respect. Another “wow” factor was the placement of the instruments. The wide soundstage did not hamper the imaging or depth of the music. The main vocals where dead on center, backup vocals outside the footprint of the speaker, and the drums really had a presence “behind” the lead singer. The saxophone was placed just left of the vocals, and you could actually follow the instrument vertically as the artist probably swayed while playing. Song #4 “Right on Time” displayed the bass capabilities of the Summit X. This song is full of musical double bass lines that can be lost with equipment that is not up to the challenge. What I heard was what I should have heard and felt, realistic “thumps” and “swacks”. The changing tempo of the kick drum was accurately reproduced. Great stuff. Song 7 “Hey Girl” has some really subtle acoustic under tones played by the lead singer. They had a finite location like I have not previously heard and did not get eaten up by the amplified guitar, something (at least I think) hard to recreate. Song 8 “James” had sections of dueling acoustic guitars. They were both placed just outside the left and right speaker with amazing clarity. Song 10 “Old Man Time” had an extremely slight guitar amp hum before the music starts, something that went previously unnoticed by me. Every song that I did not touch on was more of the same, great reproduction.
The second CD was Sara Bareilles “Little Voices”. This recording has some excellent female vocals that span the entire frequency range, a great example being song number 7. During one of the lines in the song her voice starts at a low frequency and ends up finishing quite high. What I noticed was an effortless transition all the way through the spectrum with an amazing flat response. The vocals stayed dead center and sounded like they came from vocal cords. Also, the sound coming from the piano had width and depth that moved as the keys where played, like something you would expect from live music.
Overall, it was a great experience. I believe this speaker is worth the $14K price tag when you consider the Summit was worth the $11K a few years ago. Can you pick up a Spire and a Decent or two for around or less then the Summit X? Probably, but, the low-end response I heard from just the Summit X (with no sub) sounded great on all the content that was thrown at them. Also, they had a bit more presence then my last experience with the Spire; they played loud, lost nothing, and loved every minute. I felt more engaged and more enveloped in the music, it seemed to have the right output at the right frequencies.
Hopefully somebody finds this useful and feel free to ask any questions. The photo below shows the main listening area of Shawn's showroom. It is a fun place to listen and you are hard pressed to be able to find others places where you can switch in the CLX, Summit X, Spire, Vantage, Vista, Purity, Revel Preforma, Revel Ultima Salon 2, etc. with pretty sweet electronics.
I was able to pull away and get down to DaVinci Media tonight to audition the Summit X. I am not a reviewer by trade (HA) but I have considerable time with speakers like the CLX, Spire, Prodigy, Revel Salon, etc:music:.
The speakers were fed with all Mark Levinson equipment. The source was No 51, a beast of a CD player. The preamp was No 326S, feeding into a No 433 amp. This was all connected by reference Nordost cabling.
The speaker itself was very impressive visually. The new spikes allow a rear-rake of 11 degrees all the way to a forward rake of 1 degree. It is almost like they took notes on the DIY summit spikes
. The Summit X also has 3 adjustable lights on subwoofer box, so you can go from a dark listening room to bit of ambient lighting depending on your needs. The box is much larger then the Spire, but the design is similar.They were setup like you see below. Flashlight techique, with a large distance from the front and side wall. The couch was probably about 60% of the distance from the front wall. From what Shawn said, they had about 60 to 70 hours of play on them.
The two CDs that I brought with were O.A.R. “In Between Now and Then” and Sara Bareilles “Little Voices”. This was due to the fact I was familiar with both, allowing me a baseline. These are the most played CDs on my bi-amped Vista rig and also what I listened to previously when I listened to the Spire.
The first CD I played was from O.A.R. They have a bit of a Dave Mathews Band feel; many passages with electric and acoustic guitar, saxophones, hint of tambourine, and a good amount of solid drum work. There is a very wide soundstage to this recording, especially with some of the backup vocals.
The first song I queued up was #3 “Risen”. It really sounded amazing. This speaker reproduced the most realistic saxophone I have heard; the only comparison I can make is to the CLX in that respect. Another “wow” factor was the placement of the instruments. The wide soundstage did not hamper the imaging or depth of the music. The main vocals where dead on center, backup vocals outside the footprint of the speaker, and the drums really had a presence “behind” the lead singer. The saxophone was placed just left of the vocals, and you could actually follow the instrument vertically as the artist probably swayed while playing. Song #4 “Right on Time” displayed the bass capabilities of the Summit X. This song is full of musical double bass lines that can be lost with equipment that is not up to the challenge. What I heard was what I should have heard and felt, realistic “thumps” and “swacks”. The changing tempo of the kick drum was accurately reproduced. Great stuff. Song 7 “Hey Girl” has some really subtle acoustic under tones played by the lead singer. They had a finite location like I have not previously heard and did not get eaten up by the amplified guitar, something (at least I think) hard to recreate. Song 8 “James” had sections of dueling acoustic guitars. They were both placed just outside the left and right speaker with amazing clarity. Song 10 “Old Man Time” had an extremely slight guitar amp hum before the music starts, something that went previously unnoticed by me. Every song that I did not touch on was more of the same, great reproduction.
The second CD was Sara Bareilles “Little Voices”. This recording has some excellent female vocals that span the entire frequency range, a great example being song number 7. During one of the lines in the song her voice starts at a low frequency and ends up finishing quite high. What I noticed was an effortless transition all the way through the spectrum with an amazing flat response. The vocals stayed dead center and sounded like they came from vocal cords. Also, the sound coming from the piano had width and depth that moved as the keys where played, like something you would expect from live music.
Overall, it was a great experience. I believe this speaker is worth the $14K price tag when you consider the Summit was worth the $11K a few years ago. Can you pick up a Spire and a Decent or two for around or less then the Summit X? Probably, but, the low-end response I heard from just the Summit X (with no sub) sounded great on all the content that was thrown at them. Also, they had a bit more presence then my last experience with the Spire; they played loud, lost nothing, and loved every minute. I felt more engaged and more enveloped in the music, it seemed to have the right output at the right frequencies.
Hopefully somebody finds this useful and feel free to ask any questions. The photo below shows the main listening area of Shawn's showroom. It is a fun place to listen and you are hard pressed to be able to find others places where you can switch in the CLX, Summit X, Spire, Vantage, Vista, Purity, Revel Preforma, Revel Ultima Salon 2, etc. with pretty sweet electronics.
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sleepysurf
Well-known member
Nice review! How would you say the Summit X compares overall to the CLX?
The reproduction of (higher) low and mid-frequency content was the one thing that stood out on the CLX. The Martin Logan reps brought music that really played to the strength of the speaker; difficult drum passages and instrumentals. Obviously you will have to have something like Tonepub’s descent i with the newer crossover technology to get every last drop of bass out of the music, but that 40, 50 hz on up was pretty amazing with the CLX bass panel. Nothing like a membrane to reproduce another membrane if you know what I mean.
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Tsmooth,
Thanks for your insight into the "X".
You state that you believe the X is worth $14K when compared to the $11K price of the original.
If I may ask, how familiar are you with the sound of the original Summit and in what way are they different?
Thanks.
GG
Thanks for your insight into the "X".
You state that you believe the X is worth $14K when compared to the $11K price of the original.
If I may ask, how familiar are you with the sound of the original Summit and in what way are they different?
Thanks.
GG
The time I had with the Summit was when they originally came out and in DaVinci's previous location (like 2006 on up). That was when Shawn replaced the Prodigy, but probably too far away to really make a direct comparison to the Summit X. The notes I had from Prodigy v. Summit and how the panel / woofer integration was just fantastic. It was fast and very musical, able to detail but hit you in the chest at the same time (addition of the onboard amps?). From the other things he had to show in the $10K+ range (Revel, some Wilson bookshelf), they seemed to be well worth the price.
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DrJRapp
Well-known member
That's the key to the kingdom. I submit that the sound of both are close enough that it will be damn near impossible to make a comparison of the two unless they are sitting side by side with the same connected material and the same media. Even then their slightly different placement will have it's effect. Therefore, any comparison based on one's "memory" of what a speaker sounds like becomes very, very subjective.
I recently got a brief listen to a brand new (not broken in) pair of Summit X hooked up to equipment that is very different than mine. I would really be hard pressed to compare it at all to my Summits that I listen to daily. Differring source equipment can and will make two identical speakers sound different.
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Now we just needs somebody to do some side by side testing...
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Jerry,
That's also my sense but I will wait for further observations.
What makes the comparison even more difficult are the 25 and 50HZ adjustments. Given my experience, minor (1/8 to 1/4 db) adjustments of these two knobs have a substantial and audible effect on the mid / low bass, which also impacts the midrange and upper frequencies.
So how would you compensate for that variable if you had the original and the X side by side? To say another way, one might hear a fuller mid bass with the X that can be reasonably replicated by adjusting the x-over volume knobs on the original Summit.
GG
That's also my sense but I will wait for further observations.
What makes the comparison even more difficult are the 25 and 50HZ adjustments. Given my experience, minor (1/8 to 1/4 db) adjustments of these two knobs have a substantial and audible effect on the mid / low bass, which also impacts the midrange and upper frequencies.
So how would you compensate for that variable if you had the original and the X side by side? To say another way, one might hear a fuller mid bass with the X that can be reasonably replicated by adjusting the x-over volume knobs on the original Summit.
GG
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