Stage X in My System

[babydoc]

I have had a Stage center channel speaker in my HT system for the past 7 years. While I did not worry about compatibility with my Summits, I felt that the Stage was not quite as good a match for the CLXs that I eventually upgraded to. However, as M-L had nothing else in their center channel line that I thought was better, I waited...and waited.
When I got wind of the Stage X that used a "XStat™ Transducer & Folded Motion™ Tweeter," I did some research. While it looked similar to the original Stage (ESL panel, woofers and chassis), I thought that the new tweeter might come closer to the match that I was seeking as it provided a larger effective tweeter area.
Well, I took the plunge and, for those with the larger surface ESLs, I think that the M-L design team has gotten it right. My impressions, after break-in, are that the new Stage X has all of the things that I like about its predecessor and does an audibly better job in conveying the high frequencies. The slight "bow-tie" effect that I had with the original Stage is also much less noticeable.
It would be interesting to me to hear if others have gone the Stage X route as well as the ESLs with which they have mated it.

 

[jmschnur]

Stage x with my Montis works very well indeed.


J

 

[Rich]

Honestly, I think you are fooling yourself a bit. Other than the tweeter, the Stage X is identical to the Stage. You may be getting slightly more silky highs due to the more appropriate tweeter, but that is the only difference I think you could notice. Other than that they are truly identical, best I can tell. The original Stage also had an X-Stat transducer, so that is not a difference. I am not sure what you mean by the "bow-tie" effect, but the design isn't any different. They just substituted in a different tweeter. Every spec is the same.

It is still way too small and compromised of a center channel for the CLX's, in my opinion. The original Stage works ok in a 14x19' room with my Summits, but I certainly wouldn't spend the money to upgrade to the newer model just for the new tweeter. I would wait until they came out with something more substantial. And for the CLX's, I think I would be more inclined to use a single Summit as a center channel.

 

[jmschnur]

I think the xover is changed as well or at least its settings for the high end to match the new tweeter. I also believe the power supply board has been improved to provide a quicker "on".


J

 

[Rich]

I think the xover is changed as well as the tweeter .

I don't think so. If it has, they fail to mention it in any of their marketing materials. The writeup on the crossover is identical to the one for the Stage. The crossover points certainly haven't changed.

Don't get me wrong. I think the new tweeter is a great upgrade. But I still don't think this speaker is anywhere near a match for the CLX.

 

[JayGee]

As a vocal supporter of Martin Logan, and a CLX, Stage, Stylos, and EFX, owner, I became disillusioned with the Stage after seeing Skyfall and Les Miserables at a 4K theater. They were the first films I saw in a theater in 15 years. It demonstrated forcefully that the Stage was the weak point in my speaker system. After consulting with my dealer, I decided to give the Paradigm C5 a try. I was impressed with it's timbre match to the CLX and the broad, dynamic presentation it provided. I also, a little later, bi-wired it and that just made it better. The speaker is just about at its break in point, and I am convinced it was the right move until such a time when the ML folks can figure out how the give that great ES sound, to match the large panel systems, in a speaker size suited to a center channel.
I do not believe that the Stage X provides a meaningful solution to a robust ES Center Channel.

 

[babydoc]

Stage X vs Stage

Honestly, I think you are fooling yourself a bit. Other than the tweeter, the Stage X is identical to the Stage. You may be getting slightly more silky highs due to the more appropriate tweeter, but that is the only difference I think you could notice. Other than that they are truly identical, best I can tell. The original Stage also had an X-Stat transducer, so that is not a difference. I am not sure what you mean by the "bow-tie" effect, but the design isn't any different. They just substituted in a different tweeter. Every spec is the same.

It is still way too small and compromised of a center channel for the CLX's, in my opinion. The original Stage works ok in a 14x19' room with my Summits, but I certainly wouldn't spend the money to upgrade to the newer model just for the new tweeter. I would wait until they came out with something more substantial. And for the CLX's, I think I would be more inclined to use a single Summit as a center channel.

If I had a bigger room and could sit farther away, I would have considered a larger ESL panel for the center but it was not practical in my 21 x 14' room. I do not know if you have actually heard the Stage X but I had the opportunity to A/B both in my system and call tell you that the new tweeter makes an audible difference in dispersion and smoothness of the highs. No, it is not a perfect match for the CLX's but it is a step forward. BTW, the "bow-tie effect" described by Dolby Labs man Roger Dressler refers to a size mismatch between areas of center and front main speakers resulting in a discordance in imaging. Magnepan has addressed this issue with its "Tri-Center" arrangement (www.magnepan.com) and those with Maggies that have done this, as has one of my friends, found that adding the three panels to the center solved this issue. My work around has been to address the "size" of the center channel with an adjustment feature on my Theta Casablanca IIi HD processor. It is not ideal because it will expose high frequency mismatches with the main front speakers. This is where the Stage X does a better job with its larger area tweeter element.

 

[Rich]

It would be difficult to do it right (although I am sure Jonfo could figure it out), but I wonder how stacking Stages would work to resolve the bowtie effect. Stacking maybe 3 of them together as a single center. Otherwise, I would think that something like Jonfo's center channel would be the best solution. Although I do understand the issue of not having a big enough room to do that. I face the same dilemma myself, with barely enough room for the Stage itself.

 

[Boris]

How about mounting the Stage vertically? I have been thinking of doing this with my Motif X since I feel the horizontal center channel is a flawed design in itself.

 

[jmschnur]

Clearly a vertical mounted speaker would be better. So why not an EFX or a Vista (or better) as a center behind a screen .

For those of us with a flat panel, that choice is not really possible. Nothing is really perfect when horizontal, however the Stage and its improved version , the X are rational choices.


J

 

[snyderkv]

Clearly a vertical mounted speaker would be better. So why not an EFX or a Vista (or better) as a center behind a screen .

For those of us with a flat panel, that choice is not really possible. Nothing is really perfect when horizontal, however the Stage and its improved version , the X are rational choices.


J

As a center, how would the EFX perform compared to the Motifx/Stage? The EFX has no tweeter but does have a larger panel. Both operate at nearly the same load and frequency

 

[Rich]

How about mounting the Stage vertically? I have been thinking of doing this with my Motif X since I feel the horizontal center channel is a flawed design in itself.

Mounting the Stage vertically would not work, except in the sweet spot, because of the dispersion of the panel. This is why I suggested stacking them. However, using a regular ML speaker as a center would probably work fine. But this is only useful in a large room with a projector and acoustically transparent screen, which is basically what Jonfo does.

 

[snyderkv]

As a vocal supporter of Martin Logan, and a CLX, Stage, Stylos, and EFX, owner, I became disillusioned with the Stage after seeing Skyfall and Les Miserables at a 4K theater. They were the first films I saw in a theater in 15 years. It demonstrated forcefully that the Stage was the weak point in my speaker system.

Jay,

How does your EFX compare to your Stage/Motif if you were to use the EFX as a center (aesthetics aside). Have you compared them in that setup?

 

[JayGee]

Jay,

How does your EFX compare to your Stage/Motif if you were to use the EFX as a center (aesthetics aside). Have you compared them in that setup?

I only have 20" of clearance below the screen drop. There is no practical way I could use an EFX for a center. If, however, I were tempted to try, I would use 2 EFX based on their panel size and dispersion angle.

 

[jmschnur]

Acoustically transparent screen leads to center behind screen?


J

 

[Rich]

Acoustically transparent screen leads so to center behind screen?

Exactly. So you would need the screen to be about five feet or more from the front wall, requiring a pretty big room. Heck, if you had a 4k projector system, you could have a wall-to-wall screen with all your front speakers behind it. But now I'm just dreaming.

 

[JonFo]

^^^ Stay tuned, I'm planning an update to a new 4K projector and updating the screen to a full 125" 2.4 screen covering all three fronts.

BTW- stacking two or three stages should be a good alternative for a wider dispersion, high output center behind an acoustically transparent screen for those needing to sit closer than the 14' or more required by a vertical panel like my SL3XC center.

BabyDoc - Congrats on the new stage X, glad you are enjoying it.

 

[babydoc]

^^^ Stay tuned, I'm planning an update to a new 4K projector and updating the screen to a full 125" 2.4 screen covering all three fronts.

BTW- stacking two or three stages should be a good alternative for a wider dispersion, high output center behind an acoustically transparent screen for those needing to sit closer than the 14' or more required by a vertical panel like my SL3XC center.

BabyDoc - Congrats on the new stage X, glad you are enjoying it.

Thanks JonFo. I had thought about stacked stages but I use an on-wall plasma display and could not have the added height without interfering with the bottom of the display. BTW where is Big Canoe?

 

[JonFo]

^^^ Ah, got it, with a panel display, not many choices for placing a center, regardless of design.

Big Canoe is an hour north of Atlanta, in 9,000 acres of forest with a beautiful resort feel. http://www.bigcanoe.com/

 

[jmschnur]

Does a stage x above and below the plasma make sense?


J