Sound problem

[Hocky]

Well, I located some phase in/phase out tests, everything sounds fine.

So I turned off the dynamic volume and audyssey, hello bass and fullness. But, the volume drops, so I need to turn it up to just under half way just for a moderate listening level, is that a sacrifice or should I still try out a separate amp? I definitely need to try it! Like one guy said it here perfect(i believe it was Roberto)once you buy the speakers everything just spirals, upgrading to better components to get the potential from the speakers!!

Anyway, I thought the point of audyssey was to give you a fully calibrated sound, because it measures the sound in the room with seating positions?? The last receiver I purchased, was approx 15 yrs ago, certainly no calibrating programs on it. So I'm now just back into building a new system, reading and trying to learn as much as possible. Audyssey seemed to be wonderful, until I turned it off!!

Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions.

Next, I'm thinking about using in wall 8" Electromotion speakers( i could use 4 of these, 2 for surrounds and 2 rear)or just go with the electromotion surround (EM-FX2). Or to thriw a curve ball, anyone experiment with high fronts(id use the in wall speakers). Suggestions?

Thanks

Audyssey does what you think it does (your results may vary based on room/mic placement), but you should turn off dynamic volume and probably dynamic EQ for music listening. Audyssey can still provide correction with those turned off. I actually usually listen with DynamicEQ turned on for casual listening, but if you're listening at higher volume critically, it is best off, I think.

 

[NLaudiophile]

I don't hear any strain on the system. I really do not have it playing loud enough for that. I'm matching Bose surrounds (301s) and a Bose center which I know is causing an overall problem. The input sensitivity was set at +2dB. I bumped it up to +4. So a comfortable listening level now is around 35-40 or -45 - -40.

I'm certain when I buy the ML center and surrounds it will correct some issues. It's slowly coming together. Any thoughts on the in-wall vs Electromotion surrounds? How high should surrounds be placed? Hearing level when sitting or up high?

 

[NLaudiophile]

Ok so I'm not completely off track. Music is 100 times better when dynamic volume and audyssey off. So does audyssey have any influence on the overall equalizer settings or is just volume correction? I have the option to set the equalizer manually, it have adjustments for:

63Hz
160
400
1000
2500
6300
16000

Can go from -6 to +6dB on each setting. Presets are all 0. I typically keep the high treble at +6, and go down until mid level, then increase back up towards the bass levels. Nothing below 0 though. So I guess if I were to graph it, it would be a like a half oval shape!

With all that said, I normally just use Dolby PLII or DTS setting for movies.

 

[Tosh]

I'm matching Bose surrounds (301s) and a Bose center which I know is causing an overall problem.

Audiophile understatement or advanced trolling?

(either way, let's burn him!)

 

[NLaudiophile]

When I purchased my first HT system, it consisted of a pair of Bose 701s, the 301s and their center. At the time, it was the best thing to sliced bread!! That was around 1999 I believe. But on the plus side, think of the difference I hear with the new MLs!! We all started somewhere....

It's only now that I'm back into rebuilding. I'm constantly reading and asking questions, hoping to have a great sounding system.

 

[Peter Soderberg]

got to jump in based on my field experiences.
I don't like what Audessey does to our speakers. In talking to engineers on the Paradigm side(ARC, PBK), they suggest that Audessey has a "sound" that they feel is the right one and is applying it to all speakers. Since we are a big dipole, we dont' fit their parameters or goals well. Since the panel is pretty good on its own, only use the EQ function in the lower frequencies if at all. they suggest using it at the xover point of the woofer on down and let the panel go. I have always liked our systems with it off as it makes our stuff sound compressed and shrunken. Let your ears guide you. Audessey is no substitute for good postioning, good speaker choices and careful system set up. It is almost becoming like the old Bose statement "put the sub anywhere, it doesn't matter" in that they make it seem that all you need to do is to hit their button and everything is perfect.

 

[roberto]

Hola. With respect to the other members who had recommended to you to use of an equalizer, please do not. It is not a matter to have mid-range or bass, or highs...it is a matter to have a piano, not a pianola, in other words, you could use an equalizer to change the size and timbre of any musical instrument, causing a worst problem than solving a frequency response issue in your room. This is due to the phase parameters of the equalizer (any equalizer varies this parameters ) and many times the sound is worse with the equalizer than without it. The controls of the equalizer are used, usually in a "V" shape. In other words, tons of bass and tons of highs. It is unusual to find an equalizer properly used. Because our ears sense the sound in a logarithmic way, and the pre-amplifiers, amplifiers, reads the music in a linear way, causing this a non match harmonic and size of the instruments. Also, you have a switch where you can by-pass the equalizer, and listen right away the great sound that the equalizer is providing. WRONG!. To do the test right, you have to bring the level volume knob down totally, switch the equalizer on, then bring the knob to the desire level, then bring the knob back to zero, then, switch the equalizer off, and now bring the knob to the desire level. Of course you will be bringing this volume knob up to 30% more than with the equalizer on, representing your adjustments at the equalizer. Listen carefully, and I assure that you will choose the signal without equalizer! Happy listening!

 

[NLaudiophile]

Certainly makes sense. There's a huge difference when the audyssey is turned off. The fullness returns when I turn it off. On another note, are you suggesting leaving a majority of the EQ settings on 0 and slightly increasing the dBs on the 1st or 2nd settings? That would be 63Hz and 160Hz

 

[NLaudiophile]

Will certainly give that a try as well.

Thanks

 

[MrBT]

got to jump in based on my field experiences.
I don't like what Audessey does to our speakers. In talking to engineers on the Paradigm side(ARC, PBK), they suggest that Audessey has a "sound" that they feel is the right one and is applying it to all speakers. Since we are a big dipole, we dont' fit their parameters or goals well. Since the panel is pretty good on its own, only use the EQ function in the lower frequencies if at all. they suggest using it at the xover point of the woofer on down and let the panel go. I have always liked our systems with it off as it makes our stuff sound compressed and shrunken. Let your ears guide you. Audessey is no substitute for good postioning, good speaker choices and careful system set up. It is almost becoming like the old Bose statement "put the sub anywhere, it doesn't matter" in that they make it seem that all you need to do is to hit their button and everything is perfect.

I second that statement. Also don't like what Audyssey does to ML. Being euphoric about this technology only for brief moment and ended up not using it at all after multiple attempts of measurements. This is not a substitute for carefull speaker placement or proper acoustical treatments.

 

[RUR]

Certainly makes sense. There's a huge difference when the audyssey is turned off. The fullness returns when I turn it off. On another note, are you suggesting leaving a majority of the EQ settings on 0 and slightly increasing the dBs on the 1st or 2nd settings? That would be 63Hz and 160Hz

This sort of question is best answered based upon accurate frequency response measurements, done with REW/Omnimic/XTZ. Since the end result is based upon personal preference, there's no "right" answer, but at least real measurements will allow you to see what you're hearing and may suggest remedies, either by repositioning speakers or application of appropriate EQ filtering.

I'm pretty sure Audyssey corrects in both frequency and time domains (JonFo would know for sure), though setting it up properly isn't necessarily easy e.g. there's a very lengthy thread devoted to proper Audyssey setup over @ AVS.

 

[NLaudiophile]

There's been some significant improvements in sound, just from the advise on this thread alone. I've made a decision that I'm going to add a power amp. I'll never know until I try. The sound is currently "Filling out" but I'd like to see what it can sound like with some extra power, or at least having power to spare. Upon purchasing the speakers, the ones on demo were hooked up to a Yamaha 7.1 120wpc AVR.

As for audyssey, I figured and read previously to buying the Onkyo that the program will just provide the best sound for the room. Maybe it's meant more for movies. Music def sounds better in 2 ch and all ch stereo with audyssey off

After testing the equalizer, there was not a huge difference in volume levels. Music appears to be more centered when its off. Still working on the resonance. The speakers are 24" from the wall with a full gyprok wall behind. I find a slight difference when I activated the dynamic volume on light

 

[NLaudiophile]

Just thought about this small question. Def would like some input from some hard core music listening people. When testing, changing, adjusting, etc. what source do most recommend? Blu-ray concerts, something on DVD, mp3 and other formats? I listen to music typically from sirusxm or some Internet radio.

I know there's a big difference when listening to a concert on DVD, but I rarely have it on.