prodigy vs. summit

[Chordeater]

...any good amplifier on these day can handle this load with no problem.

I totally disagree with this affirmation. It is possible that the measurement was incorrect, but a load as that the graph shows is very complex and only the amplifiers with great delivery of current and the ones that doubles the power with the impedance down to 1 ohm are able to move these panels in a ideal way. The electrical laws are there, it's only necessary to apply them.
In the end the sentence "trust your ears" is the key , but in my case the perceptions agree with the theory.

Greetings.

 

[roberto]

I totally disagree with this affirmation. It is possible that the measurement was incorrect, but a load as that the graph shows is very complex and only the amplifiers with great delivery of current and the ones that doubles the power with the impedance down to 1 ohm are able to move these panels in a ideal way. The electrical laws are there, it's only necessary to apply them.
In the end the sentence "trust your ears" is the key , but in my case the perceptions agree with the theory.

Greetings.

Hola Chordeater...so you are saying that brands like Mark Levinson, Halcro, Krell, Conrad Johnson, VTL, Plinius, Blue Circle, Bryston, Classe, Jeff Rowland, Cary Audio, BAT, Audio Analogue, Audio Research, Bel Canto, Chord, McIntosh, Pass Labs, Parasound, Musical Fidelity, Quicksilver, Margules Audio, Linn, Arcam, just to name a few and many other manufactures could not drive the Summits...of course I am not saying here that a Sanyo (with all respect to anybody that might be using one of these) can do it...I say any good amplifier, not just any amplifier. The load if difficult of course, we know that, but when you listen the Summits, you will unerstand why we are so in love with it...there are so good things that we are listening better now than before...at the list above, you will find SS as tube amps...and their sound with the Summits its outsanding. Have you listened the Summits? Can you tell us your impression of their sound?...do you think that they lack of high frequency?...this is a total new design and a total new panels, capable to give us, the music lovers, an outstanding musical presentation, wiht better scenario and right size of the musical instruments, listen to the voices also...don't get wrong...I do understand the impedance graphic, but what my ears tells me regarding them is...one of the best sound available on these days with any good sounding amplifier. Also, many brands uses ML as a tool design, due to the difficult load, not impossible load. Again, trust your ears and happy listening,
Pura vida,
Roberto.

 

[Chordeater]

only the amplifiers with great delivery of current and the ones that doubles the power with the impedance down to 1 ohm are able to move these panels in a ideal way.

Hola Roberto,

first, sorry for my english, I will try to explain my ideas. The word "ideal" gives to my phrase a diferent sense from your interpretation. Of course, these amplifiers can drive the Summits, maybe in a good way, but we can't say that Summit's are an easy load ... and if I trust this graph, I want a muscle amplifier to drive them.
Yes, I'd hear the Summit's. They didn't like me ... they totally shocked me! I'm crazy about Summit's, and a pair are now travelling to Spain, I ordered almost two months ago (I can't wait anymore ). Once I listened to this magical loudspeakers, my aim was to find the ideal amplifier for them, not one that does it well but one that does it the best. I think the Summit's are so good that the sound is wonderful with many amplifiers, but totally awesome with a sturdy and powerful amplifier.

Best regards.

 

[Joey_V]

Yes, I'd hear the Summit's. They didn't like me ... they totally shocked me! I'm crazy about Summit's, and a pair are now travelling to Spain, I ordered almost two months ago (I can't wait anymore ). Once I listened to this magical loudspeakers, my aim was to find the ideal amplifier for them, not one that does it well but one that does it the best. I think the Summit's are so good that the sound is wonderful with many amplifiers, but totally awesome with a sturdy and powerful amplifier.

Best regards.

I understand what Roberto is saying about quality amplification and I agree.... but I also think that something that can handle 2ohms and lower (<1ohm) is a prerequisite to getting the most out of the Summits.

On a sidenote, Chordeater, make sure to take pics of your Summits and post your system on the system page when you get a chance... thanks!

 

[Chordeater]

Summary of the Hi-Fi World article:

- David Price begins the article talking about the Quads 989, 30 lines since the Summit's apears ... The first comparation it's in favor of summit's:

"The ML are built a hundred times better..."

- Next, he talks about the electrostatic panels in general:

"... are great in some ways: fast and with excellent dispersion, vastly better than a standard speaker with conventional drive units"
- Well, I'd love electrostatics, but this two characteristics are precisely the worst part of the panels (in the case of Summit's they're very fast, but dispersion is a defect yet, compared with electrodinamics transducers).

- He encounters a problem with the bass,
"In my room, wich is middle-to-large by UK standards (?), the biggest problem was indeed the bass ... I had to settle with 20cm from the rear walls ...the bass was just too dominant, and boomy too ... I ended up putting something under the downward firing bass drivers ... a single large wool motorcycle sock took the level down a tad, and the result was that the active drivers no longer excited my room's resonant modes ... I have to say that I think it's unfortunate that a truly high end speaker such as this should require 'physical intervention'..."
- What a nonsene! He really like to criticize!

"By the end of the review period (running in) this loudspeaker was consistently turning in heart-stopping performances, and I was no longer missing my reference Quad 989s."
- Thank heavens!

"The key to the Summits is their midband clarity, subtlety and finesse. There is a delicacy from these speakers that not even the Quads posses ... they're smooth despite an ever so slight treble roll off ..."
- He used a poor twenty watt tubular ampifier ...

"...there's serious power and punch; this makes the 989s look positively limp-wristed. The beautiful bass playing on 'The Kick Inside', for example, came over in a utterly convincing way; poignant, well articulated, emotionally engaging and absolutely 'all of a piece' with the rest of the recorded acoustic."
- but more ahead ...

"I also like the Quads' bass, it's tighter and tauter than the MLs at least at sub-100Hz frequencies"
-In my opinion, the world the other way around.

"Treble quality from the MLs is better than the Quads; it's smooth, silky and sounds very classy."

-In the measured performance:
"There was peaking at the crossover frequency, due to forward summing ... the LF assembly provides +6dB or so more output than the electrostatic panel... The components of the Summit work well in themselves, but integration needs to be improved. A potentiometer in front of the subwoofer to reduce output would help."

Well, I listened to the MLs and the Quads, and the Summits are much better in overall sound, extension, stage, ambience ... for me no comparison. I think David Price did a odd review with some contradictions and with his favorite Quads in mind all the time.

Regards.

 

[roberto]

Hola Roberto,

first, sorry for my english, I will try to explain my ideas. The word "ideal" gives to my phrase a diferent sense from your interpretation. Of course, these amplifiers can drive the Summits, maybe in a good way, but we can't say that Summit's are an easy load ... and if I trust this graph, I want a muscle amplifier to drive them.
Yes, I'd hear the Summit's. They didn't like me ... they totally shocked me! I'm crazy about Summit's, and a pair are now travelling to Spain, I ordered almost two months ago (I can't wait anymore ). Once I listened to this magical loudspeakers, my aim was to find the ideal amplifier for them, not one that does it well but one that does it the best. I think the Summit's are so good that the sound is wonderful with many amplifiers, but totally awesome with a sturdy and powerful amplifier.

Best regards.

Hola...pues te quiero decir con todo respeto que tengo un cliente con un amplificador en modo Triodo, marca Margules, sólo tiene 30 Watts por canal...y suena bellísimo, y no necesitas más potencia..no...ya verás que tengo toda la razón...te felicito por tu nueva compra...los Summits es de lo mejor que ML ha fabricado...
Saludes desde Costa Rica,
Roberto.

 

[patlad]

Jadis mono blocks will not have any problems to drive these speakers even at such low impedance. But at what price!!