TileproNC
Member
does upgrading the power cord to the MLs have any advantage?
power cord?
- Thread starter TileproNC
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This is beyond my understanding,but, changing power cords with my CLSs has a noticeable difference.Every power cord yields a different sound.
Worth experimenting.
Tube60
Well-known member
Follow along on my thread in Off Topic Audio/Video. Not only am I getting good advice for product, I'll let members know what I pick and how the difference in sound is. Between the two threads, I think some useful advice and observations are going to come about!
TileproNC
Member
thanks tube...i may go the signal route..i have kicked the DIY idea around, but for the price the signal cables look good
Tube60
Well-known member
Me too!:rocker:
BTW to change the subject, how do you like Raleigh? I'm considering moving to that part of the country. I started a thread Off Topic on that a couple of months ago. Send me a PM, or reply to that thread if you'd like. I'd be grateful!
Yes, upgrading the power cord can improve sound.
OK , forgive me if I am being obtuse. The power cord to the ML is only to charge the panel. I own CLS and I guess I need to experiment with this. Its hard for me to imagine that a better cord to charge a panel will make that much difference. Im not discounting any of you by any means but once a panel is charged I can run it unplugged for 10 min with no sonic degradation. Maybe its the constant curent thing !
I too, am somewhat ignorant on this topic. Many offers to "borrow" power cords has come my way over the years, but I have refused all due to my (possibly misguided) bias...
a) One of the reasons many large companies still consider Michigan for their production facilities is the huge surplus of electrical power here. They consider Michigan despite its' high labor, insurance and energy (fuel--winter is rough here) costs.
b) The 345KV substation is 1.5 miles from my house and the stepped-down power is sent underground all the way here due to local zoning laws. The 7500 to 120 transformer sits at the edge of my property, and the next 3 lots that it would service are vacant -- the housing/financial sector issues have hit hard here.
c) I have, due to the above considerations, A LOT of power available to me. But I installed two dedicated 15 A lines to my listening room anyway. This is a recommended tweak, no matter what your thoughts on power cords...
So... Is it reasonable to think that the last 3 feet of the electrical circuit that feeds my amps/speakers/source would actually make a difference ??
My thinking says NO. But since this topic has come up so many times of recent days, I am now willing to give it a shot. I think Signal Cables will be making me two 3-foot power cords for my amps in the very near future.
~VDR
a) One of the reasons many large companies still consider Michigan for their production facilities is the huge surplus of electrical power here. They consider Michigan despite its' high labor, insurance and energy (fuel--winter is rough here) costs.
b) The 345KV substation is 1.5 miles from my house and the stepped-down power is sent underground all the way here due to local zoning laws. The 7500 to 120 transformer sits at the edge of my property, and the next 3 lots that it would service are vacant -- the housing/financial sector issues have hit hard here.
c) I have, due to the above considerations, A LOT of power available to me. But I installed two dedicated 15 A lines to my listening room anyway. This is a recommended tweak, no matter what your thoughts on power cords...
So... Is it reasonable to think that the last 3 feet of the electrical circuit that feeds my amps/speakers/source would actually make a difference ??
My thinking says NO. But since this topic has come up so many times of recent days, I am now willing to give it a shot. I think Signal Cables will be making me two 3-foot power cords for my amps in the very near future.
~VDR
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I have always been thinking that when current has been travelling for miles and miles, the last 3 feets can not have any inpact.
But recently, some specialist in a shop explained to me that indeed, in this situation, powercord will not change anything... BUT... when you have a power purifying system in your room, then (and only then) keeping current pure on the last three feet does make a difference... and the powercord does matter... this was the first time I heard a story about powercords that made sense (at least to me).
Still... I have no experience about that and I am still curious to see if people buying $1000 powercord can actually pass the blind test.
Please that into account that I may be completely wrong. I do not consider myself as a specialist, neither have I sufficiently trained ears.
But recently, some specialist in a shop explained to me that indeed, in this situation, powercord will not change anything... BUT... when you have a power purifying system in your room, then (and only then) keeping current pure on the last three feet does make a difference... and the powercord does matter... this was the first time I heard a story about powercords that made sense (at least to me).
Still... I have no experience about that and I am still curious to see if people buying $1000 powercord can actually pass the blind test.
Please that into account that I may be completely wrong. I do not consider myself as a specialist, neither have I sufficiently trained ears.
Jazzplayer
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Upgrading the power cord, or changing it will, in my experience change the sound. Same with a power conditioner. The change may be positive or not, I have experienced both! At least try before you buy, I am running the originals with my Aeon-I's directly to a dedicated line. Only higher end cables I have experimented with are PS Audio, which made the sound worse on the ML's, but worked wonders on my amps...Go figure! I used a power conditioner before, but after getting the dedicated line it was no longer necessary.
All the Best
Svein
All the Best
Svein
robertawillisjr
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Being a die hard skeptic the last thing I believed was that power cords (providing you had a decent guage) was the last thing that would better the sound of my equipment. Well, now I don't have an original power cord in my system. They generally make a difference, in many cases a negative difference. I tend toward the Signal Cable line which are reasonably priced and (to my ears) are beneficial to the sound. This is true for my ML Quests and Stylos and for the brief time that I had a set of Prodigy speakers as well.
I would advise any one to try it before making judgement. In most cases, you can get a full refund within some time period.
I would advise any one to try it before making judgement. In most cases, you can get a full refund within some time period.
I now have my CLSs connected to a PS P300-which helps a bit-more refined sounding.Before I got the P300, I used Granite 555 power cords and they definitely made a difference.I am not able to understand why,but as a classical musician I can say that the difference is noticeable.
My experience is that most power cords make a difference for the worse.
MiTT
Super User
And mine is 180 degrees opposite... but I've only experimented with Nordost, Tara Labs and Synergistic Research. All yielded noticible improvements.
David Matz
Well-known member
OK , forgive me if I am being obtuse. The power cord to the ML is only to charge the panel. I own CLS and I guess I need to experiment with this. Its hard for me to imagine that a better cord to charge a panel will make that much difference. Im not discounting any of you by any means but once a panel is charged I can run it unplugged for 10 min with no sonic degradation. Maybe its the constant curent thing !
When I had the Ascents, where the power cords just charged the panel, cleaner power made a difference. The difference was akin to getting a hospital grade outlet put in on an existing line- not mind blowing, but substantial. It makes sense after getting all of the right electronics in place.
In my case I plugged the speakers into the ESP the Essence Reference power conditioner, where all of the components were plugged in and were benefiting from the power cord going from the wall into the power conditioner. I imagine if I were to put on after market cords from the speakers into the power conditioner, the difference would be even more pronounced.
The best analogy I have heard for this improvement is wiping off the fog one was not aware of from one's glasses or sunglasses.
Yes , aftermarket powercords going to your logans does make a difference. I use Foundation Research LC 1's that have a built in conditioner half way down the cord. I bought them on the recomondation of my ML dealer who said they were the best pc's for ML's over everything he had tried.
He made this recommendation even though he wasn't a Foundation Research dealer.I replaced the stock pc's with the Foundation research cords. It made a big difference. I have the Foundation Research cords plugged into an Audience Adept Response R12 conditioner as well.In the picture , you can see the conditioner mid way down the cable. I also replaced the fuses in the LC's with Isoclean fuses.
www.bluecircle.com makes an bc 68 powercord similar to the LC'1s which are specifically made for ML's. The owner of BC, Gilbert uses ML's in his soundrooms to test his products.
Cheers
He made this recommendation even though he wasn't a Foundation Research dealer.I replaced the stock pc's with the Foundation research cords. It made a big difference. I have the Foundation Research cords plugged into an Audience Adept Response R12 conditioner as well.In the picture , you can see the conditioner mid way down the cable. I also replaced the fuses in the LC's with Isoclean fuses.
www.bluecircle.com makes an bc 68 powercord similar to the LC'1s which are specifically made for ML's. The owner of BC, Gilbert uses ML's in his soundrooms to test his products.
Cheers
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raygunn
Well-known member
Hard to believe but yes, a better powercord has enhanced every ML hybrid I have had.
For some reason, the improvement is quite minimal by comparison, on the CLS' but it still yields improvement!
For some reason, the improvement is quite minimal by comparison, on the CLS' but it still yields improvement!
OK , forgive me if I am being obtuse. The power cord to the ML is only to charge the panel. I own CLS and I guess I need to experiment with this. Its hard for me to imagine that a better cord to charge a panel will make that much difference. Im not discounting any of you by any means but once a panel is charged I can run it unplugged for 10 min with no sonic degradation. Maybe its the constant curent thing !
pidigi
Well-known member
trying to find an explanation...
Ok, I was born very curious, I always try to find an explanation for what happens around me. Some times I don't succed (especially in the audio field), but it is always a nice exercise!
So, why should a different power cord make some difference at all? There are not so many "parameters" that will change in the circuit, and of course you will not be able to recover what has been lost in the previous kilometers of distribution line.....
Let's start with the exercise:
1. the power cord is really close to the speaker cable. This means that there could be some interference between the electromagnetic field generated by the current flowing in the power cord with the speaker cable, introducing this "noise" in the feedback loop of our amplifier. It isn't only a 50Hz noise, we can have some switching power supplyies around, noise from the rectifing diodes, etc.
Often the "fancy" audio power cords are shielded (I would say always, but I don't have a complete knowledge of the power cord manufacturers aroud the world).
2. This electromagnetic field could also be reduced by twisting the cables, reducing then the cross section of this "coil". It can help the shielding in doing his job.
3. what else? The only think that I can suppose is that changing the characteristics of the cables will change his inductance/capacitance and it can act a little bit as a line filter. But I think that here we are going in very subtle differences here...
I don't know if this time I succeded in my exercise, but I hope this could help explaining why it works!
Ciao
Paolo
Ok, I was born very curious, I always try to find an explanation for what happens around me. Some times I don't succed (especially in the audio field
), but it is always a nice exercise!So, why should a different power cord make some difference at all? There are not so many "parameters" that will change in the circuit, and of course you will not be able to recover what has been lost in the previous kilometers of distribution line.....
Let's start with the exercise:
1. the power cord is really close to the speaker cable. This means that there could be some interference between the electromagnetic field generated by the current flowing in the power cord with the speaker cable, introducing this "noise" in the feedback loop of our amplifier. It isn't only a 50Hz noise, we can have some switching power supplyies around, noise from the rectifing diodes, etc.
Often the "fancy" audio power cords are shielded (I would say always, but I don't have a complete knowledge of the power cord manufacturers aroud the world
). 2. This electromagnetic field could also be reduced by twisting the cables, reducing then the cross section of this "coil". It can help the shielding in doing his job.
3. what else? The only think that I can suppose is that changing the characteristics of the cables will change his inductance/capacitance and it can act a little bit as a line filter. But I think that here we are going in very subtle differences here...
I don't know if this time I succeded in my exercise, but I hope this could help explaining why it works!
Ciao
Paolo
TileproNC
Member
Ok.I went the DIY route and I very pleased with the results.Dont know if its in my head but I do hear tighter bass. I also had a ever so slight hiss thats almost gone. Great DIY project for newbies like me. Even the look of the upgraded cables was worth the effort. Next step is a dedicated circuit for each speaker and the equipment. Not as hard as it sounds, the system is 6' max from the subpanel that feeds the room so its just a matter of adding three breakers. Thanks for all the replies.Everyone on this site is super helpful
Thanks
BTW I drool at some of the rigs you folks have.I hope to be up there with the big dogs someday:bowdown:
Thanks
BTW I drool at some of the rigs you folks have.I hope to be up there with the big dogs someday:bowdown:
what?
are you guys saying that after 150+- feet of romex the last 3-4ft matter
come on.I ran this idea past my father who has spent almost 40 years as
an electrical engineer "masters degree" spending years with multi million dollar equipment that makes our logans look like childs play.his reaction was what? you guys are getting crazy now!
are you guys saying that after 150+- feet of romex the last 3-4ft matter
come on.I ran this idea past my father who has spent almost 40 years as
an electrical engineer "masters degree" spending years with multi million dollar equipment that makes our logans look like childs play.his reaction was what? you guys are getting crazy now!
