Please recommend budget $1,000 amp for Vistas--What would *you* buy?

[jjcarr]

Interesting?! See I've yet to hear a digital amp that I care for even the least little bit (and there have been plenty of them the last 3 years at the RMAF). I find them limited dynamically and kind of "soul less", very UN-SET like actually.

As they say: "Your mileage may vary"
My experience as been the opposite. The Bel Canto I had sounded clearer, with more distinct notes (hence the SET reference) and a lower noise floor than the high end solid state amps I compared it to. It is a different sound, but I'm a resolution junkie so they work well for me. Put a tube pre in front of the Bel Canto (I used a BAT vk3i at the time) and they sound great.

 

[MiTT]

Exactly my point. My opinion shouldn't matter to you in your system. If you are happy and enjoying your music that is all that matters. I do think that having a good tubed pre-amp like the BAT you mentioned contributes it's own sonic signature to the mix. Bel Canto makes darned good stuff too and I have NOT heard that particular amp, so I may have something yet to discover myself.

Regardless, if it works for you, then you have found a synergistic match. I wish you nothing but many hours of happy listening.

 

[STDCMR19]

I was in the same boat as you. I had Vistas being powered by an A/V receiver. I picked up a Sunfire Cinema Grand on Audiogon for $950 and never looked back. I highly recommend!

 

[roberto]

Hola...also I liked very much Bryston 3B or 4B and Aragon 4004 and 8008 . These are a very good ML sounding gear. You might get a good price on those too. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[raygunn]

Actually, you are correct, the Sunfires are not 'tube-like" at all...or are they??

The fact of the matter is that the Sunfire handles CLS panels better than any tube amp I have encountered, even at 5x the money of a Sunfire Signature.

It delivers loads of current to the panels in an almost endless supply.
It is clean, transparent and mostly neutral. It is much quieter, more dynamic, and much lower in distortion than any tube amp.

In fact, its only "flaw" is a gundry plateau in the response that was engineered to be there by Bob Carver. This 1/3 db plateau adds a bit of "depth" and "smoothness" to the midrange to suit a tube-lover's ears. I find it harmless. Snobby audiophile reviewers find it offensive (because Bob Carver is pushing his sonic preferences on the buyer).

The 'Current Source" feature is also a parlor trick that makes the amp sound soft and mushy like old tube amps. Not recommended at all. "Voltage Source" is the only way to go unless you are into the mushy syruppy nature of older tube amps.

All this means is that Bob Carver actually allows you to choose the sonic signature you prefer. Having a choice is not a bad thing at all!

I guess the Sunfire is tube-like after all. It is a solid state amplifier that allows you to select the sonic signature you prefer but without spending any more money. It sure beats the high stakes gamble of tube-rolling!


Cheers,
Ray

 

[wallacefl]

I 2nd the Sunfire Sig...had the Architects II version and it was the best non-tube tube sounding amp I have heard but the Sig's are still pricey used. I have never heard the standard model for comparison.

 

[raygunn]

Wallace, I've had both Sigs...

The original Sig was good, but had some annoying flaws due to the powercord and the binding posts. The Architect Series II which is what I currently use, has better resolution, Bob Carver says it is due to the new circuit layout and smaller chassis. However, I suspect that the better quality posts and a detachable powercord didn't hurt either.

A standard Architect (small box non-signature) Series II is usually $1000 to $1200 used.

I 2nd the Sunfire Sig...had the Architects II version and it was the best non-tube tube sounding amp I have heard but the Sig's are still pricey used. I have never heard the standard model for comparison.

 

[jk319]

I have a Cambridge 840A brand new for less than 1k shipped. Worth a look-see.

 

[mikesinger]

would suggest looking at used amps - muse, belles, and classe.

all of them are know for their sonic capabilities, musicality, reliability, and excellent company service if needed.

 

[asindc]

The Sunfire and Emotiva recommendations are very good, IMO. I also recommend Parasound A21, which usually goes for $1,200 on Audiogon. I little more out of your range, but if you can swing it I believe you will find it worth the extra cost.

 

[tsmooth]

Remoteportal, did you ever pick up an amp yet?

 

[remoteportal]

Thanks for the advice!

Remoteportal, did you ever pick up an amp yet?

Thanks for all the input and advice everyone!

The audiophile market place of products is very overwhelming for me and after participating in this community I feel I can trust Martin Logan for the loudspeakers. So stress related to speakers is low... I hope I can't go wrong with ML... I'm now looking for a center and I'm done with a 5.1 setup.

As far as amps are concerned I've read all the responses to my question and I'm now even more confused.

First off I guess I need to purchase a 5.1 because I'll soon have a HT but I want high quality sound and my budget has already been exceeded.

I'm hoping to jerry rig a 5x80W Sony for the center and surrounds and use my Yahama for the Vistas until I can understand basic amplifier issues.

 

[Rich]

As far as amps are concerned I've read all the responses to my question and I'm now even more confused.

First off I guess I need to purchase a 5.1 because I'll soon have a HT but I want high quality sound and my budget has already been exceeded.

Welcome to the Madness.

You might consider buying a decent 7 channel amplifier. That way, you could bi-amp your Vistas with four of the channels, providing them with lots of power for great sound, and still have three channels left over for your center and surrounds. I highly recommend Sunfire multichannel amps for this purpose, which can often be found reasonably priced on the used market. Right now, there is a Sunfire Theater Grand Amplifier (7 channels x 200 wpc) dealer demo with full warranty on audiogon for $2,000. That is a great deal on a great amplifier and I would jump on it if I were you. Go to Audiogon and search for "sunfire."

If you wanted to buy new non-demo, and still wanted a great deal, I would recommend you consider the Outlaw Audio Multichannel Amps. For $2150, you get a brand new, good quality, seven channel amplifier and you have a 30 day return policy. Click on this link:

Outlaw Audio 7700

The Sunfire is still the better deal of the two, though. Good luck with your decision and enjoy the process.

 

[lpaudio2]

I would recommend, a set of b&k monoblocks (more powerful ones 200w+), parasound also a good option - high current, ive got a cheap 1000a coming to drive the bass on my requests. Nice that it has gain trimpots, so you tune somewhat if you have room issues.

I would stress quality, and the importance of balance in a system, the speaker cables, ic's etc, need to balance the sound. I have always had amazing luck with alpha core micro-purl silver ic's. In fact, its pretty much been a constant in my system for the last 10 years, seen countless amps, speakers, etc.

 

[dimensions87]

Perhaps you could look into the Dussun V6i, Class A Amp. Have heard good things about it. The 300w x 2 into 4ohm it provides should suffice.

 

[Nik]

Not to hi-jack but if you are interested I would be willing to let go of my 2 channel Sunfire Symphonic Reference Amp- I was saving if for my second set up but I am going a different route and focusing on my main HT.
Link: http://www.sunfire.com/Symphonic_Reference.htm
PM me if you are interested.
Nik

 

[remoteportal]

Yamaha's RX-V863 ?

Sunfire Theater Grand Amplifier (7 channels x 200 wpc) dealer demo with full warranty on audiogon for $2,000

Thanks... that sounds ideal... but for the next couple of years how about a Yamaha's RX-V863? for $600+ on eBay? It has 105wpc... Since it's 7.1 I could use four channels for the Vistas like you said.

I know this is completely subjective but would this be a mistake or should I just save my pennies to get up to the $1,500 to $2,000 level?

The Yamaha seems to have all the modern bells and whistles...

Don't want to start a religious debate but are the mainline Sony's & Yahama's "bad" or just not up to par with the specialty audiophile brands mentioned by all you guys?

I may have to compromise on amplification for a while.

 

[Craig]

A 105 watts at how many ohms?

A 7.1 channel Yamaha (or most other brands) receiver is typically very weak in the power department. Their top of the line receiver is not bad but even that is no comparison to most dedicated amplifiers. There are some very cheap home theater in a box systems that advertise over a 1000 watts but they are using a very misleading wattage rating standard.

Here is one example of a HT system that claims to have 1000 watts total power output and it only costs $180 US dollars. Yeah right!

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HT-X50-5-1-Channel-5-Disc-Theater/dp/B000O1RDQE/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1213974146&sr=1-6

Wattage ratings on receivers is very misleading. There is a very big difference between an amp that produces 100 watts and then drops drastically as the ohms drop compared to an amp that produces 100 watts at 8 ohms and doubles to 200 watts at 4 ohms, 400 watts at 2 ohms, etc.

There is a reason why dedicated amplifiers are used and also why they cost a bit more money than a receiver that tries to do everything in one relatively small box. Most ML speakers demand power to include high-current and usually don't match well with receivers with the exception of a few really high-end and expensive receivers.

I started out using a Sony ES Receiver to power my Ascents. It sounded good by my standards at the time but the receiver could not handle the speaker load and had to be repaired twice. I then bought a Sunfire 5 channel amplifier and 5 years later it is still going strong and powers my all ML 5.1 channel HT system. I thought it was a big expense at the time but I realize now it was a good investment and actually saved me money rather than trying to upgrade amps every year or two.

 

[danman]

For the meantime, I am using the Cambridge Audio Azure 840A V2 (1800$ Can.) and have been very surprised how well it does with my Quests. I am going to get 2 new Azur 840W power amps that I demoed in Montreal recently and was blown away for 2500$ each....................very nice!

 

[tsmooth]

I am not sure I understand your current setup. Is your Sony STR-DE475 acting as your receiver/preamplifier and just feeding the surround speakers? How is everything connected? What is feeding your Yamaha amplifier for the Vistas?

I wanted the bells and whistles so I went with the Denon 3808, but only wanted it for an Pre-amplifier/Video switcher (to run to my Sunfire amplifier) that could also control my weight-room and outdoor zone. Are you looking to power a $2500 pair of speakers with $600 worth of receiver at 105 watts per channel? Looking to the future, mating that same receiver with a Logos? Your center is going to be a little less forgiving then the newer, efficient ML line. At worst you would want an amp on your front three speakers, but again it is all up to you. You can even get an Emotiva LPA-1 7 channel amplifier for $499 and do the same 5 speaker (with Vista’s biamped) setup you have been hinting on. From the looks of what you are trying to accomplish for music and HT, a good receiver with pre-outputs to a decent amplifier for around or under $1000 total can be had very easily. Everybody is giving you advice to drop $2K-$3K on this stuff, but just do the best with what you can. I believe you should not run a receiver to your Vistas if you really want to experience why you spent the money on them in the first place.