phono cartridge lifespan

[randysmith]

I'm upgrading my Sumiko Bluepoint to a much pricier higher end unit (thanks to the resolving power of my new ML I think I need an upgrade, that and my wife decided to dust the turntable one day, and yada yada, I need a new cartridge) and I've decided to buy used.

It seems most of the online ads state 300 hours or "low-use". I have realized that I don't know how many hours one can expect from a cartridge!! Is 300 hours about 1/2 the normal use life expectancy? Is it 500 hours?? Any advice for getting a new cartridge??

Many thanks,

Randy

 

[gregadd]

Been there done that

I too have destroyed an expensive cart. I yanked out the entire cantilever that disappeared into the carpet never to be seen again. No wife to blame.

Speaking of which. Asking an owner how many hours he has put on a cart is like asking your wife how many boyfriends she had before you. Even if she tells you the truth you wont like the answer. The only real way to tell is to have a pro examine it under a microscope. The suspension may have degraded and there may be some magnet saturation.
IMO you look up the price of retipping and include that in your decision. There are bargains out there as may guys treat carts like Baskin Robbins flavor of the month. Make them give you a receipt so you can know how old it is. Be wary of a cart that is say four years old and has only 50 hours on it.
Now days it is impossible or at least difficult to get a demo on a cart. That means you have to rely on reputation, reviews or if lucky a demo at friends house.
Make sure the arm and cart are compatible.
Weight of cart. middle range of what your arm can handle
Height of cart. again mid range of your arms height
Make sure compliance of your arm is compatible.
If considering a moving coil make sure your preamp has sufficient gain (60db is good point)

IMO you should not pay list price for a cart.

Lastly you want a cart that compliments your systems strengths and does not exaggerate it weaknesses. For example don't match a lean cart with a lean speaker.

 

[Bernard]

IMO you should not pay list price for a cart.

Maybe so, but read the warning letter to the editor in the latest TAS about questionable Koetus available on the market

 

[twich54]

Is 300 hours about 1/2 the normal use life expectancy? Randy

Not even close, hell Bernard wouldn't even have it broken in by those hrs !! .... LOL , sorry Bernard I couldn't help it....

Randy, in truth, 300 hrs is actually about a third or even a lttle less of the life expectancy. A properly maintained MC cart should provide 1000 plus hrs of service.

 

[gregadd]

I did read the letter

Obviously the deeper the discount the more suspect you should be.
I suspect that many manufactures don't' really retip. They just send you a new cart. These old carts then some how find there way back on the market being sold as new.
I have no proof that's just my opinion. if your dealer does not have a microscope you could consult a reputable jeweler to inspect it for you. A worn out cart should be readily apparent. Of course you can always consult the manufacturer.

 

[Brian Walsh]

Cartridge life depends on several things: tracking force, how clean or dirty the records are, stylus profile, and cartridge and arm alignment (for example, incorrect azimuth translates to increased force per unit area, leading to more stylus and record wear). Listening for 2 hours a day, average life expectancy ranges from 3 years to as much as 7 years. YMMV.

 

[Bernard]

Not even close, hell Bernard wouldn't even have it broken in by those hrs !! .... LOL , sorry Bernard I couldn't help it.....

Yeah, at that rate I would ALWAYS be breaking in cartridges !

 

[RichTeer]

ISTR hearing the 1000 to 2000 hours is about what one can expect from a decent, well set up cartrdige. I think at 15 years (not used for all of that though!), my Lyra Parnauss is at--or very near to--replacement time. I have a shortlist of carts I'm interested in, including upgrading it to Olympos status (if the latter doesn't happen and I decide to sell it, I haven't forgotten my promise of first refusal to Jeff (Tonepub)).

 

[randysmith]

hijack re cartridge output and preamp gain

Asking an owner how many hours he has put on a cart is like asking your wife how many boyfriends she had before you. Even if she tells you the truth you wont like the answer.

LOL!! I never thought about it that way. Good advice.

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought about the re-tipping aspect. I guess a good cartridge should be thought of as an investment rather than a throw away item. And if 1,000 hours plus is typical, then that's great.

So one more question. How much is TOO MUCH gain?? My main preamp has ~39db of gain in the phono stage. I just decided I'd like to try a lomc , and without really understanding how much gain I would need, bought an ARC PH1 which also has about ~48db of gain. If I run the ARC into the Quicksilver phono stage, I wonder if I've got too much gain for a lomc in the 0.3mv to 0.8mv range? It seems you could just add the outputs of each stage for a total of about ~87db max, but maybe the math doesn't work that way??

Am I at risk of overloading the phono stage input on my quicksilver if I get a too high output cartridge now and go through the PH1? Or will I be restricted to a max volume of about 1/10th of the range on the preamp volume dial?

I have a 20db cut switch on my main preamp, but I think this is meant to be a temporary cut, not for normal listening. I can also just run the ARC into a line stage on the quicksilver, which has about 27db.

Any thoughts, insights or corrections are much appreciated!

thx

 

[gregadd]

hmm

Only the gain of the phono section counts for this purpose. Is your Quicksilver line stage only? If so that gain does not count either.

If you are thinking about piggy backing the Quicksilver phono stage on top of the ARC phono stage I don't know. Suggest you contact the manufacturer. I used a low output mc with my CJ pv 12. (46db gain)I added the Quicksilver transformer. My ARC Sp-14 had 66db which was plenty.

With the gain you have in the ARC, you should be ok in the .3mv to.8mv range. Much lower you might need a transfromer or head amp.

No I don't think there is such a thing as too much gain. In any even tthat is not a problem for you.

Good luck

 

[Bernard]

If you are thinking about piggy backing the Quicksilver phono stage on top of the ARC phono stage I don't know.

You cannot piggyback two phono stages as each has the circuitry for the RIAA curve, which has to be done once only.

 

[randysmith]

Oh, I didn't realize that was an issue. Boy, I wish I would have asked these questions first.

I'll run the ARC into a line input for now. Sounds like I should have just gotten a transformer to up the signal into the quicksilver. Dang.

Thanks for your help!!

 

[kach22i]

Don't the coils oxidize and become frail/crack after ten years no matter what?

 

[slowGEEZR]

I've gone by these rules since my first record playing days...

 

[slowGEEZR]

Don't the coils oxidize and become frail/crack after ten years no matter what?

Not necessarily. IMHO, handling, cleaning fluids and humidity have a lot to do with that. Also, the suspension, as has been mentioned a few times by Jeff (Tonepub), can get weak and/or fail over time. Handling, I suppose, also has a lot to do with that.

 

[Bernard]

Sounds like I should have just gotten a transformer to up the signal into the quicksilver.

Or a pre-preamp.

 

[gregadd]

QUicksilver transformer

"The Quicksilver MC transformer is the ideal way to extract maximum performance from moving coil cartridges. It was designed to match the RIAA curve specifically for use as a step-up device. It provides 23 db of gain for any phono cartridge with an output impedance between 1 and 40 ohms and has far less noise than an active head amp.
Now with Quicksilver interconnect.
Warranty 3 years.
Price $695."


Specifications
Bandwidth -3 db at 1 Hz and 100 KHz
Gain 23 db
Input Impedance 250 Ohms, 20 Hz-20 KHz
Input Gold-plated phono
Output Integral leads with gold-plated phono plugs
Maximum Output 2.8 volts rms, 20 Hz-20 KHz
Dimensions 5"H, 2 1/2"D, 3 1/4"W
Weight 3 lbs. shipping
U.S. Warranty 3 years parts and labor

 

[Bernard]

The Quicksilver MC transformer is the ideal way to extract maximum performance from moving coil cartridges. It was designed to match the RIAA curve specifically for use as a step-up device.

I don't understand what you mean by this (the text in bold). A transformer provides straight gain and has nothing to do with the RIAA curve.

 

[gregadd]

Oops

I should have put that in quotes. It wa lifted entirely from the Quicksilver site. I assume it addresses your point of "not doing the RIAA twice" ."You cannot piggyback two phono stages as each has the circuitry for the RIAA curve, which has to be done once only. " Bernard
It is not designed to go into a line stage but must be used in a existing phono input.
I WILL EDIT THE POST WITH QUOTATION MARKS.
Gregadd

http://www.quicksilveraudio.com/products/coil.html

 

[tonepub]

Just to try and clear up what you are trying to do...

You have a BluePoint Special now and what are you thinking of upgrading to?

Did I understand correctly that you have an ARC PH1 phono preamp?

As for the gain settings, etc. The BPS has an output of about 2-2.5mv I believe and needs to be loaded at 47k. This means that you can use a standard phono stage for a Moving Magnet (MM) cartridge, which should probably be in the 38-45db range.

Actually you can have too much or too little gain. If you have too much, then you will sacrifice some dynamic range and if you have too little, you will get a lot of noise. The best spot to be is where you get a normal range of motion with your volume control, so that max volume for your system occurs between about 12 noon and 2:00.

If you are thinking about going up the ladder to another MC cartridge, check the loading and output. Most low output moving coil cartridges require loading somewhere between 100 and 1000 ohms and you will need a preamplifier that can work with this. Many low output MC cartridges are in the range of about .5mv which work nicely with a phono preamp that has 55-64db of gain.

What's the rest of your phono system like? If you like the sound of the BPS, but would like a bit more resolution that doesn't require you changing your system, consider the Sumiko Blackbird. Even new, they are 800 bucks and a very nice step up from what you have and are still a high output cartridge.

Another great cartridge in that price range that will work well with what you have is the Clearaudio Maestro Wood. A bit more romantic than the Sumiko, but very resolving and being a MM cart, will not require you to change your current setup.

As for buying used cartridges, of course buyer beware, but there are some good deals to be had and a good way to gauge how many hours is by how many records have been played. My experience has almost always been that audiophiles have played a lot FEWER records than they claim to.

Most modern cartridges are good for 2-5000 hours of playing time. The factors that affect lifespan are how clean you keep the stylus, how much you've bounced the canteliver assembly around (sometimes as a result of not cleaning the stylus carefully) and the humidity of where you live. Dry climates are always harder on the suspension of a cartridge, just like they are on the rubber components in your car.

Hope that helps, good luck on the purchase.