Panel upgrade needs amp upgrade?

[Webinattor]

In February, I purchased new replacement panels for my Aerius I speakers.

The new panels came with some of ML's newer technology, the spars were clear...got the newer membrane materials I think. Anyway, the replacements looked different...no dark bars across the panels. I let these run on my system for a few months and what I am experiencing is a harshness, stridency etc of the mid range. To be honest, the speakers are really ear fatiguing to me now.

Jim powers is going to take a look at the electronics boards and see if anything shows up there. To me, everything looks good on the boards.
So, I will wait and see what Jim finds.

My gut tells me that it might be that the newer membrane material etc. is now just enough to tip my AVR amplifier over into the "I can't handle the lower impedance" now area.

Think that might be possible?



My system link is below...#102...doesn't show new panel tho.
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1850

 

[Kruppy]

While my set up is different than yours I have a Yamaha AVR (not the RX-V995 that you have) that I use strictly for HT processing. I use the AVR pre outs to feed my mains through the HT by-pass on my 2 channel pre amp and it also feeds the amp for my center and rears. At lower listening volumes everything sounds ok other than it’s at lower volumes. As soon as I step up closer to reference levels my HT system turns very harsh to my ears. During 2 channel only listening, I do not have this issue at the same volume levels (for 2 channel listening the Yamaha is not in the signal path).

I have not heard the RX-V995 so I cannot comment on the sound quality but, I would bet that the newer panels are more revealing than your older panels and you’re hearing exactly what your Yamaha is putting out. Not necessarily an impedance issue, more of the Yamaha house sound. There have been a handful of posts concerning the Yamaha sound and MLs and I think most were dealing with the same brightness issue you’re having now.

 

[Rich]

No question in my mind that your problem stems from the Yamaha receiver. It is simply too low of a quality to adequately drive these speakers. You have a Porsche body with a Volkswagon engine and are wondering where your performance has gone.

I have the Yamaha RX-V2095 receiver which I was perfectly happy with driving my Definitive Technology speakers. Then I upgraded to Martin Logan Ascents and the sound was terrible. Very strident and grating. Also, a lot of hiss and noise. It was so bad that when I didn't have a source playing and I turned the volume all the way up, I could just barely hear the radio tuner playing (this was on the CD input!).

When I finally upgraded to some Conrad Johnson tube components, I was able to hear what the Ascents were really capable of. It was night and day difference and I never looked back. Please do yourself a favor and buy a separate amp/preamp combination worthy of your speakers. The Yamaha doesn't have the current capability, power supply, or signal quality to do the job.

 

[Webinattor]

You know your comment about "the new panels being more revealing" gave me pause. That might be why I'm hearing things so much differently. My older panels were sooooo smooth. Last night I also noticed when my volume control (starts a 6 o'clock position) moves to 9 o'clock position that's where the volume really gets grating. There is not much volume till 9 o'clock position then ....ACK! Too strident, so I turn it down. I never would do that before. It was always, keep turning it up!

I've been trying to learn about using the Yamaha as a front end to different amplification today...and looking at what is out there. I think I will go to my dealer tomorrow and see if my sales guy will let me borrow "something" to try so I can get a feel for what new amplification will do. Hate to send my internal parts to Lawrence for no reason.

Thanks to you both for your replies. These speakers have been worth their weight in gold to our family in the enjoyment they've provided in our home.

 

[Kruppy]

I've been trying to learn about using the Yamaha as a front end to different amplification today...and looking at what is out there. I think I will go to my dealer tomorrow and see if my sales guy will let me borrow "something" to try so I can get a feel for what new amplification will do. Hate to send my internal parts to Lawrence for no reason.

Becareful using your Yamaha as a pre-amp as it may still (well...it will) continue to affect the sound. This is basically what's happening in my situation. I have learned to live with keeping the volume at a low enough level to keep the harshness down as I can not afford a high end processor. I'm not saying that an AVR will not sound good, it just might take a pricey unit to get the sound quality you want.

I know dtb300 (Dan) in the recent couple of months upgraded his Yamaha receiver to an Arcam (model escapes me) and the last I've heard was very happy.

"Borrowing" for a home audition is by far the best way to let your ears decide whether you have the sound you want. Good luck in your search.

 

[Rbernst929]

I am thinking of replacing too....

Hi. I am wanting to replace my aerius i speaker panels too, as they are over 10 years old now. I do have a Krell front end and amplifier so, I assume the new panels will be acceptable with this? Thanks. -Bob

 

[Webinattor]

Bob,
Here's what my new panels look like. Notice you don't have those black bars running across the speaker. It's all clear now. The visual look is a bit different than the older panel.

 

[DTB300]

I know dtb300 (Dan) in the recent couple of months upgraded his Yamaha receiver to an Arcam (model escapes me) and the last I've heard was very happy.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=4096&highlight=AVP700&page=2

Post #17 is my comparison of the two.

 

[Webinattor]

Yes, that was an interesting read. I had not heard of an Arcam before.

When I first purchased the Yamaha, I guess about 7 years ago, I went back and forth returning units to the dealer that I did not like. I got to the price level of the one I have now and liked the sound. For 7 years. It wasn't until I did the panel replacement that things went south. What you wrote, sounds like what I hear now, tho.

 

[DTB300]

Yes, that was an interesting read. I had not heard of an Arcam before.

UK product. They have an Arcam Owners Forum over here which Arcam does visit and post from time to time:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=119

When I first purchased the Yamaha, I guess about 7 years ago, I went back and forth returning units to the dealer that I did not like. I got to the price level of the one I have now and liked the sound. For 7 years. It wasn't until I did the panel replacement that things went south. What you wrote, sounds like what I hear now, tho.

I think what you are hearing is the true sound of the Yamaha now with the new panels. I have replaced the panels on my Sequel II's and it was quite a change in sound quality and volume levels. I use them for Surrounds.

I wish I had the money for a Theta or Meridian, but it just was not possible for me. For the features I wanted/needed and the sound improvement I got, the Arcam fit the bill for me. I already had all external amplification so a processor only unit is what I was looking for. For me and my tastes, I like the sound of the Arcam over the Krell and Lexicon's.

I was most surprised at the affect "pass-through" had on sound quality as no one in any other reviews ever addressed this. I was also surprised at the improvement in the video - even though video is not a biggie with me.

I have been very happy with the Arcam processor and maybe one day I can afford to own a Theta or Meridian.

Like any component try to get out and listen for yourself to see if you like it or not.

 

[Rbernst929]

Thanks Webinnator

Thanks Webinnator...that's what I expected. Do you think its worthwhile to upgrade my aerius i's with new panels, or buy the new Source speaker? -Bob

 

[Webinattor]

Well, in my case, panel replacement was a pretty inexpensive upgrade. I guess it depends on the wallet, mostly. :music:

My speakers are in great shape, so I didn't really want all new ones. You seem to have great gear, so I dunno how much the
upgrade bug bites you. I think the panel replacement, given your speakers age, will certainly be an upgrade for you.

 

[Rbernst929]

Thanks Webinnator

Thanks a lot Webinnator. I tend to go with the new panels also. My room is small and square, 11'x11' and I have the aerius i's with two dynamo subwoofers and acousting panelling on the wall behind the speakers and realtraps corner traps in the two corners behind the speakers. I have some diffusion behind my listening seat. Sound is very good, although a bit warm probably due to the subwoofers even with the volume level low. I wouldnt mind a bit brighter sound overall if not annoying. Happy listening. -Bob.