New Tubes and ML

[mojambo]

Hi Folks,

Can any of the fairly new tube amps handle ML speakers?
I.E Jolida, Yaqin, Music Angel...
All seem to be Class A w/30-35 watt triode ouput and 50-70 watt output ultra-linear. Looking to get in to tubes on the cheap side (if possible).

Thanks

 

[tonepub]

tubes on the cheap won't drive ML speakers. Half of the tubes on the expensive won't either, especially if you have the current model speakers.

 

[Bernard]

tubes on the cheap won't drive ML speakers. Half of the tubes on the expensive won't either, especially if you have the current model speakers.

Jeff, I thought I thought it was the other way round, i.e. the current ones mostly have their own powered woofers, and so would be easier to drive than the older ones as all you are driving are the panels.

 

[FISH_MAN]

what model do you want to drive ? my MC275 just gets buy nicely but the $22,000.00 300 watt mono tubes McIntosh makes sound even better I have compared side by side.to be honest I have not heard many tubes with Martin Logan I think Twitch uses rouge 150 on his spires maybe he can chime in.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Hi Folks,

Can any of the fairly new tube amps handle ML speakers?
I.E Jolida, Yaqin, Music Angel...
All seem to be Class A w/30-35 watt triode ouput and 50-70 watt output ultra-linear. Looking to get in to tubes on the cheap side (if possible).

Thanks

If you're looking to get into tubes on the cheap, may I suggest an integrated amp? My Jolida JD1000RC drives my Aerius easily. I prefer it to my Krell 400xi integrated. Curiously, the Krell was tested to clipping at 290wpc and the Jolida is only rated to 100wpc (150wpc @ 1Khz), yet the Jolida drives my speakers to a subjectively louder volume than the Krell.

 

[RichTeer]

Hi Folks,

Can any of the fairly new tube amps handle ML speakers?
I.E Jolida, Yaqin, Music Angel...
All seem to be Class A w/30-35 watt triode ouput and 50-70 watt output ultra-linear. Looking to get in to tubes on the cheap side (if possible).

Thanks

I use a pair of PrimaLuna ProLogue 7s to drive my Spires. I use the 2 Ohm tap and they do a great job. I think the ProLogue 7s are about $3200 new; dunno if that jives with your definition of "cheap"...

 

[FISH_MAN]

tubes on the cheap won't drive ML speakers. Half of the tubes on the expensive won't either, especially if you have the current model speakers.

I thought it was easier to drive the new stuff ???

 

[mojambo]

I am attempting to drive my SL3 speaks. "they" say a tube watt is equal to 2-3 ss watts. I was hoping a 60-75 ultra-linear could do the job. The SL3 has powered woofs but...

Thanks

 

[RichTeer]

I am attempting to drive my SL3 speaks. "they" say a tube watt is equal to 2-3 ss watts. I was hoping a 60-75 ultra-linear could do the job. The SL3 has powered woofs but...

Thanks

I'd love to know where that myth comes from. A watt is a watt, whether it be from SS or tube. Granted, tubes tend to clip more gracefully than SS, but that's a different thing altogether.

 

[ronenash]

I thought it was easier to drive the new stuff ???

I am using a Beard P100 90w tube amp to drive my Spires and it works beutifully. With tube amps you might get a slightly roled off extreme treble (over 16KHz) because of the low impedance of the panel at these frequencies. I don't find this a problem because it roles off very gracefully and my hearing at these frequencies is almost non-existant.

The Spire sounds better with the Beard than any other amp I tried (IcePower Class D, Conrad Johnson Motif, McCormack, Krell). I also mentioned in another post that with the newer models that have internal amps for the bass the load on the tube amp is lower and thus it sounds better. The Breard sounds much better and goes loader with the Beard than with the Ascent i I had before.

Hope this helps,
Ronenash

 

[Bernard]

I am attempting to drive my SL3 speaks. "they" say a tube watt is equal to 2-3 ss watts. I was hoping a 60-75 ultra-linear could do the job. The SL3 has powered woofs but...

Thanks

The SL3 does NOT have a powered woofer.

As RichTeer says, a watt is a watt is a watt, whether tube or SS.

 

[htrattner]

tubes and martin logan = beautiful sound !!

I love my tube stuff .....hands down tubes are a more musical sound than ss.... as for power my mono blocks joilda jd-3000a are 200wtt/ch / tube power and very high current ... and handle my 2cslzii full range stat just fine thankyou and for $5500.00 new and less if it a used pair on audiogon or ebay ,,, there are a steal !!! look there is alot of stuff out there and some of the stuff is good and worth it and the other stuff is ok but your buying a name and then comes along a company that shames the rest (Nad,Joilda,Martin Logan ,etc ) more bang for the buck ,so that you can buy more music . Try looking on audiogon forsome used tube stuff ,you will love it and so will your speakers ...:music:

 

[tonepub]

The Aerius was a much easier speaker to drive.

The tube amp thing with current ML is a case by case thing. I'd seriously make sure you can get back out of the tube amp you buy if you don't like it...

Some are magic, others are pretty rolled off and un-dynamic.

 

[mojambo]

You folks are great. Keep the thoughts coming. I just bought the SL3 great shape but used. Thought the woof was powered-not that it would have changed my purchase. Back in the 70's I heard Planers and thought they were incredible. Hoping the Logans will rekindle the flame. Almost went with maggies but the SL3 deal was too good to pass up. Also, are hybrid amps almost as good as only tubers? Jolida hybrids seem to give a lot of punch for minimal $$$.

Thanks

 

[User211]

The SL3 does NOT have a powered woofer.

As RichTeer says, a watt is a watt is a watt, whether tube or SS.

Well that's true, Bernard, but you can "in general" push a tube amp harder before it starts to sound awful... as they clip far more graciously, so they do give "apparently" more power for a given wattage.

 

[Bernard]

Well that's true, Bernard, but you can "in general" push a tube amp harder before it starts to sound awful... as they clip far more graciously, so they do give "apparently" more power for a given wattage.

Agreed, but I would say apparently more volume as power is measured in watts.

 

[DTB300]

Well that's true, Bernard, but you can "in general" push a tube amp harder before it starts to sound awful... as they clip far more graciously....

Distortion is still distortion - period.

If someone is pushing an amp into clipping, then its time to buy a more powerful amp. But if you want to sit there and say your distortion you produce is "good distortion", then enjoy your distortion.

 

[User211]

Distortion is still distortion - period.

If someone is pushing an amp into clipping, then its time to buy a more powerful amp. But if you want to sit there and say your distortion you produce is "good distortion", then enjoy your distortion.

Fair point...

But then if you're listening to a tube amp, in general, you don't dislike a bit anyway...

Having said that, I was reading the distortion specs for Audio Research's new class D amp. I was pretty amazed how poor it is, to say the least. See this month's Hi-Fi News for a review and tech test.

 

[Craig]

True Facts:
- A Watt is a Watt
- Current is Current
- An Ohm is an Ohm
- Amperage is Amperage
- It's also a fact that you can purchase a 1000 Watt Sony Home Theater system for $800 or less (including the 5.1 speaker system) at your local BigBox store or online.

My point is that you can't judge how well an amplifier will power a particular speaker simply based on the wattage spec. A Watt is a Watt but the current output is typically omitted from the published specs. There is more involved than an advertised wattage spec especially when the industry doesn't follow standards or make up their own as in the case of Home Theater in a Box systems.

The wattage spec is often used and abused by marketing because most customers don't know any better and they assume more watts=better sound. Although, the audiophile industry seem to be maintaining a common standard for the wattage spec on amps. Some amp manufactures do publish amperage output but not consistently.

The output transformer of a tube amp has a lot to do with the amount of current in relation to wattage it provides (unless it's an OTL amp of course). And tube amps in general output more current per wattage than SS amps. For the ultimate in power an SS amp is hard to beat. However, more power doesn't necessarily equate to better sound.

 

[FISH_MAN]

True Facts:
- A Watt is a Watt
- Current is Current
- An Ohm is an Ohm
- Amperage is Amperage
- It's also a fact that you can purchase a 1000 Watt Sony Home Theater system for $800 or less (including the 5.1 speaker system) at your local BigBox store or online.

My point is that you can't judge how well an amplifier will power a particular speaker simply based on the wattage spec. A Watt is a Watt but the current output is typically omitted from the published specs. There is more involved than an advertised wattage spec especially when the industry doesn't follow standards or make up their own as in the case of Home Theater in a Box systems.

The wattage spec is often used and abused by marketing because most customers don't know any better and they assume more watts=better sound. Although, the audiophile industry seem to be maintaining a common standard for the wattage spec on amps. Some amp manufactures do publish amperage output but not consistently.

The output transformer of a tube amp has a lot to do with the amount of current in relation to wattage it provides (unless it's an OTL amp of course). And tube amps in general output more current per wattage than SS amps. For the ultimate in power an SS amp is hard to beat. However, more power doesn't necessarily equate to better sound.

I think what you meant to say is that you should just audition before you buy