NEW SITE - HOPING TO SEE MORE ACTIVITY

[bikerneil]

I have been a fan of this site for years, and I love my ML Montis speakers. When they are properly set up, in a treated room I will take them against any speaker that costs anywhere close to what I paid for mine.

I am hoping that more people return to this site and that more new people find the site. This site has been a tremendous help to me over the years, but it only works if people are active on the threads.

Great job on the new design. It looks great!

 

[JonFo]

Hi Neil, I'm also hoping we get more activity with a more reliable/secure hosting service.

There is a treasure trove of information in our old threads, and plenty of knowledgable and helpful members that cruise by every so often to keep this relevant for years.

The persistence and readability of a forum are so much better than the ephemeral and obfuscated presentation of social media platforms (looking at you, FB), it makes for a much better place to look for and share information, or have discussions.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi JonFo,

I, like Rich, CAP and other "old time" posters no longer participate because there seems to be nothing IMHO that is new or interesting to me. And lots of repetition of old threads. Or we have moved on with other interests / priorities. Then there's the crowd that believe all wire and amps sound the same and provide input on audio topics without any credibility making comments on something they haven't heard because they believe in numbers and not their listening acuity. And you are berated if you have a different "subjective" perspective.

Then you have folks like me, Dave, Tom Dac and other past "veterans" that no longer own ML speakers. Yes, the old threads are very informative but new life and members are desperately needed. I post on WBF now. Very informed, audio loving members with many new threads and topics of interest. I wish the MLO website the best going forward and good luck on your revival efforts.

 

[amey01]

Hi Neil, I'm also hoping we get more activity with a more reliable/secure hosting service.

There is a treasure trove of information in our old threads, and plenty of knowledgable and helpful members that cruise by every so often to keep this relevant for years.

The persistence and readability of a forum are so much better than the ephemeral and obfuscated presentation of social media platforms (looking at you, FB), it makes for a much better place to look for and share information, or have discussions.

Agree 100%.

The problem is, I feel a little "old" sitting at my desk with a computer using this forum.

Many people don't even own computers any more. I would say the younger crowd - but even my parents don't have a computer any longer (well, they have an old and rather useless one - but have no reason to upgrade it because they do everything on their phones.

So a 20-something comes along - has just bought their first pair of ML, doesn't have a computer, but has the latest iPhone in their pocket (and probably an iWatch and an iPad too).......what are they going to use? FB, or stuff around with BB-code here?

 

[JonFo]

... So a 20-something comes along - has just bought their first pair of ML, doesn't have a computer, but has the latest iPhone in their pocket (and probably an iWatch and an iPad too).......what are they going to use? FB, or stuff around with BB-code here?

I hang on those FB ML forums as well, and they are only good for posting pics of one's system and garnering praise or ridicule, or both
In a single post, stuff will be asked and answered repeatedly due to how FB chooses to show only a subset of replies or does not fully expand sub-threads, and people are really lazy.
It's tiresome, and I skip spending effort on educating or helping as it just all goes into the hard-to-discover bin of FB stuff. I just post links to threads or posts here, as much has been asked and answered before, and it's covered in depth.
At least here there is good discoverability (Google indexes this site) along with persistence and readability.

As for platforms, well there is Taptalk for mobiles and tablets. But for some reason, not working yet with the new forum hosting software.
Taptalk makes use of forums like AVSforum, and MLO usable even on the phone. But the new hosting is quite mobile-friendly and looks good on its own in Safari on my iPhone.

 

[Reverb]

Hi Gentlemen, I see how you're hoping this new software and server will help with some of the others coming back. We hope so also. This is a very reliable server and I'm usually watching either by phone or tablet if not on the site with my laptop. The developer is quick to fix any issues that come up.

Now, about feeling as if there is a lot of good information but some old members are saturated with it. What new could be brought to the forum, to enhance it's allure to the ones that have been here, but may not have the ML speakers any longer?

 

[peacefulcargo]

Love the new touch and feel of the forum. Amazing job!

 

[kach22i]

Hi Gentlemen, I see how you're hoping this new software and server will help with some of the others coming back. We hope so also. This is a very reliable server and I'm usually watching either by phone or tablet if not on the site with my laptop. The developer is quick to fix any issues that come up.

Now, about feeling as if there is a lot of good information but some old members are saturated with it. What new could be brought to the forum, to enhance it's allure to the ones that have been here, but may not have the ML speakers any longer?

Over at "What's Best" they attempted to lure industry insiders by offering them their own section, in affect acting as a blog.

If such a thing here was done it may have to be a present or former M/L factory insider or even a dealer.

Roberto often served that role as a dealer, perhaps get some current dealers in here?

There are also tags/signatures on certain posters identifying them as site sponsors, industry experts and so forth.

Several other forums I visit have acoustic engineers and or acoustic panel manufactures setting up roost in their forum, mostly they talk in general terms but often use their own products as an example solution to said problem posted.

A large part and challenge of owning M/L's has been room placement and room acoustics. It is a specific challenge that non-panel or non-dipole folks just cannot relate to. Expert help in lieu of just other owners would be a real plus.

As an example of some input I got recently, see thread link below.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-big-lie-dispersion-horizontal-30-degrees.30439/
The last post by Duke LeJeune explaining the loudspeaker standards for roll off and dispersion angle calculations told me there is sound outside of the 30 degree angle, just not loud enough to be counted or attributed.

Counted or attributed or not, I can hear it and those early reflections should be treated as with any other loudspeaker.

Could I have gotten that information in this forum?

I am not so sure.

On the topic of lack of action, be careful what you wish for. The once friendly Audio Karma has an over abundance of hostile people. The old guard is still there (sometimes), but the ugly outshout and outnumber them.

 

[Reverb]

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. And having more people should have been real people interested in the topic and not just being a PIA. How's that.

 

[kach22i]

Hi JonFo,

I, like Rich, CAP and other "old time" posters no longer participate because there seems to be nothing IMHO that is new or interesting to me. And lots of repetition of old threads. Or we have moved on with other interests / priorities. Then there's the crowd that believe all wire and amps sound the same and provide input on audio topics without any credibility making comments on something they haven't heard because they believe in numbers and not their listening acuity. And you are berated if you have a different "subjective" perspective.

Then you have folks like me, Dave, Tom Dac and other past "veterans" that no longer own ML speakers. Yes, the old threads are very informative but new life and members are desperately needed. I post on WBF now. Very informed, audio loving members with many new threads and topics of interest. I wish the MLO website the best going forward and good luck on your revival efforts.

Gordon, I saw the demise of the forum long ago and shouted out to all the regulars via PM including you and Tom Dac and my warnings were met with indifference and apathy.

One member alone can be held responsible for changing this forum's climate and he was eventually banned as he had previously been banned in a half dozen other audio forums.

The few forums this person was allowed to post in heavily moderated him.

However in this forum he was allowed to insult and offend anyone and everyone at will including one of Martin Logan's founding partners.

You remember TonePub/Jeff Dorgay don't you?

Take the devil's money and he owns you.

Once betrayed, trust is hard to earn back.

Actions and inactions have consequences.

The handful of members that acknowledged the threat fled as I did to other corners of the audiophile community.

Most of us met up at What's Best and were given the title "founding member".

A title that makes one feel valued is just as important as the disregard for one's value as shown in this forum.

If you want to trace this current forum situation back to a single event, then look to the past.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Hear Here]

... What new could be brought to the forum, to enhance it's allure to the ones that have been here, but may not have the ML speakers any longer?

This may apply to the likes of me as I bought a pair of ML 13As last year, but they are now for sale.

The trouble with a forum dedicated to a single brand is that it doesn't invite criticism from contributors and is always biased towards that brand. Perhaps nothing wrong with that, although I suspect it may be a reason for the relatively low number of contributions.

There are other ML forums but they are part of bigger things" For example AVS Forums has a thread (a very long thread) dedicated to ML. Other forums likewise have multi-thread ML sections. Audio Asylum has a multi-thread forum on "Planar Speakers" though this seems to be monopolised by Maggie owners. Perhaps an "Electrostatic Speakers" forum within established audio forums would receive greater attention as contributors could comment on / ask or answer questions on / grumble about amplifiers and front ends as well as ML or other els speakers all within a single forum website.

I was active in a small way here and received some good and some what turned out to be positively bad advice regarding my intention to move from horn speakers to MLs. This resulted in an unfortunate and costly purchase. I wonder if I was visiting a more general Electrostatics forum that I'd have been advised in a less biased way? I'm not in any way complaining - it was just unfortunate that I didn't insist on a home demo before purchase, but had I been talking with owners of all sorts of electrostatic speakers, I may have made a better purchase - or in fact none at all and stuck with my ancient horns - as it turns out I've done.

This post is intended as constructive, though it may appear a little negative. I hope you treat it as intended. Peter

 

[KevinJS]

What new could be brought to the forum, to enhance it's allure to the ones that have been here, but may not have the ML speakers any longer?

Difficult one to answer. Forums might feel like old hat to some, in these days of instant feedback on social media platforms.
Personally, I’d rather read a few well thought out forum posts, written by knowledgeable people, than trawl through a load of garbage, but maybe that’s just me. (I don’t feel that I’m missing anything by not having a FB account.)
Inactive forums are dead forums, so any relevant content has to be a good thing. If I’m at home, I t’s a given that I’ll be listening to music on ML speakers, so I see little point in mentioning that I’m listening on Theos or Motion 40s on every post. I’m quite happy to cross post my current album plays and chat about physical media (I’m a vinyl and CD collector), but not if it’s going to annoy people.

 

[User211]

Agree 100%.

The problem is, I feel a little "old" sitting at my desk with a computer using this forum.

Many people don't even own computers any more. I would say the younger crowd - but even my parents don't have a computer any longer (well, they have an old and rather useless one - but have no reason to upgrade it because they do everything on their phones.

So a 20-something comes along - has just bought their first pair of ML, doesn't have a computer, but has the latest iPhone in their pocket (and probably an iWatch and an iPad too).......what are they going to use? FB, or stuff around with BB-code here?

I stopped posting because Tapatalk didn't work properly so I just basically ignored the site. Plus I don't own MLs anymore and probably never will.

This site at least now works well on a mobile phone. That's a huge plus. I will keep an eye on it more now.

Regards to all the long term members who remember me LOL.

 

[Hear Here]

Angie - Could I make a suggestion that might make the forum a little easier and more intuitive, particularly to new visitors.

Example - Go from Forums to Main Discussion Forum (using a PC, not sure about phones). The first dozen or so threads are ancient historical locked threads, rather than recent ones that visitors may be looking for.

My suggestion is to review and maybe ditch some of these locked threads, but in any even have them displayed in a way that shows them as different from the current date-order threads. A background colour would do - as some other forums show their locked threads

 

[ttocs]

I agree with Hear Here, a background color for Stickies could be a quick way to differentiate them from the rest.

 

[Reverb]

Some good ideas here. I'm going to look at things suggested, and may ask some follow up questions. Today I'm in and out. I do know that too many stickies will sog down a forum as you have to look down 8 or 10 threads before getting to the new posts, you can use the New Posts on the top left side to go to new posts.

Please keep adding suggestions such as these, I'll see what we can do to keep the forum, but improve it's use for the members.

 

[agladstone]

I’m glad to see that the forum is back and hope for it’s revival.
Over the years I have learned a lot about ML’s and it’s contributed to my passion for them.
Some of the other audio forums that I’m active in, have thriving “classified” sections that seem to bring a lot of activity to the sites and it also attracts new members to the forums.
Perhaps this is another good suggestion to help the MLO forum revive and grow. I also think that having a “classified” section that is all types of audio equipment and all brands, not only ML’s is helpful.
Audiogon and eBay are expensive when selling higher priced used audio gear, so if it was free to buy and sell used audio gear On MLO, I believe it would be a positive feature of the forum.

 

[JonFo]

... I also think that having a “classified” section that is all types of audio equipment and all brands, not only ML’s is helpful.

There already is a classified sub-forum: Classified Ads

It is for ML-only, or for full setups that include ML speakers. But usually, we ignore the requirement when a long-term, active member posts some other piece of AV gear from their system. I know that when purchasing a used set of ESL speakers, I'd much rather buy from a known MLO member than from some random A'gon or fleabay seller.

 

[JonFo]

Some good ideas here. I'm going to look at things suggested, and may ask some follow up questions. Today I'm in and out. I do know that too many stickies will sog down a forum as you have to look down 8 or 10 threads before getting to the new posts, you can use the New Posts on the top left side to go to new posts.

Please keep adding suggestions such as these, I'll see what we can do to keep the forum, but improve it's use for the members.

As for the stickies on the main forum, most can be folded into a single index/FAQ entry, so I'll add that 'FAQ' thread whose posts will be pointers to some of the un-stickied and to other FAQ-type threads.
The only other sticky I might suggest is a Forum guidelines post with a summary of posting and moderation rules so everyone is cognizant of boundaries.

Proposed Stickies:

New Frequently Asked QuestionsThread: MLO Site FAQ
Forum Guidelines (TBD)

 

[JonFo]

@Angie, can you please lock that new thread so no new replies can be added. I'll keep updating it this week, and once it is in decent shape, we can sticky it, and unsticky the current set.
For now, I've got to get back to work