New ML's Seen, Heard, and Liked

[Kenscollick]

Martin Logan invited me to come and see the new speakers at the Mirage, I showed up promptly at 1:00 pm on the seventh met by Jason Bright I was welcomed into the suit that was not an official CES room but intended for their dealers. I met with the sales staff then settled into the couch first listening to two models in the Motion line driven by very modest electronics. I was definately impressed with the clarity and image. I kept eyeing the familiar looking ML's on the outside. listening to the disc I brought I kept thinking these are really good. after a few minutes Jason hooked up the still un named logans known as the 101 as expected everything was better more of the sound we are all familar with. clear clean articulate and very entertaining. This model is not intended to replace any existing speaker it employs a 44" tall mrt panel and not really sure abut the powered woofer. The quilted teak finish made it look as good as it sounded.

I asked about pictures and they were reluctant, as an invited guest I obliged as I still wanted to hear more.

I spent about an hour listening and talking with the staff and came away feeling thet this is a company that really cares about great sound and is continually working to that end.

The target release date is April with the price under 10 grand.

 

[MOON]

Thanks for the imfo. So, I take it this new speaker fits in between the Spire and Summit X? Does it have the same panel technollogy as the Spire and Summit X?

 

[JonFo]

Thanks Ken, could you contrast it to the Spire?

 

[amey01]

What's an MRT panel?

 

[Gordon]

What's an MRT panel?

Took the words right out of my mouth!

Gordon

 

[User211]

I believe Ken is an ex Diva owner. In Apogee speak, MRT or MRTW equals mid range / tweeter.

 

[Kenscollick]

Justin is correct Midrange Tweeter panel or for short MRT Not having heard the Spire I cannot comment on the comparison, as I was told it is not intended to replace any current speaker. I am not sure where it fits in the pecking order. It was a very fine speaker.

 

[David Matz]

No doubt that it is a very fine speaker. However, from a consumer psychology it doesn't make sense. Anything more than 3, or 4 models at most, confuses the customer and results in lost sales.

There's Vista, Vantage, Spire, Summit X, CLX, and the new guy. How's a new customer to choose?

 

[Jimna]

There's Vista, Vantage, Spire, Summit X, CLX, and the new guy. How's a new customer to choose?

i disagree, its just like buying a car. you see whats in your budget and then chose from those which you like the most. have more faith the average buyer of hifi in this range...or dont maybe they just have the cash, either way i cant see it being bad.

 

[FISH_MAN]

There's Vista, Vantage, Spire, Summit X, CLX, and the new guy. How's a new customer to choose?

blonde,brunette or red head thin,thick,short or tall how is a guy to choose ??? all tough choices but all of them good I like to have options myself.

 

[Rich]

Despite their saying it isn't intended to replace any particular speaker, it is pretty clear that both the Vista and the Vantage are on their way out. Summit was upgraded to Summit X (with attendant price increase); Spire came in just below it (an obvious replacement for the Vantage); and this speaker probably comes in below that and replaces the Vista. Then, you have the Purity and Source bringing up the low end of the esl line. They could also potentially put another speaker with an unpowered woofer into the mix between this one and the Purity, as a true Vista replacement, price-wise.

The Vista and the Vantage are the only remaining electrostatic speakers from ML's last generation. Clearly they will be replaced soon and this new speaker seems to be part of that transition. Doing it this way allows them to raise their prices without too much fuss from customers. They introduce new models at higher prices, saying they are not intended to replace current models, then they slowly cease production of the older models and discontinue them a little while later. Kind of like when they assured everyone they would try to make the Summit X such that Summits would be able to be upgraded, but then they just kind of let that slide by the wayside without too much comment.

There is a pretty big gap between the prices of Vantage and Spire, and between Spire and Summit X, compared to the lower end esl's. By introducing a couple of newer models, they could bring these steps closer together in price, while at the same time raising prices across the esl line. Notice how the Source, Purity, Vista and Vantage all step up in price pretty closely. But then, the gaps get bigger as you go up. I would think they are planning on replacing the Vista and Vantage, while also bringing the prices between models closer together at the higher end and with an end result of higher prices across the board.

My guess is this speaker comes in around $7,000 to $7,500 and they put out another around $5,500, and the Vista and Vantage go Bye Bye. And all this happens during the course of this year. Ok, that is my completely off-the-cuff prediction. What do you guys think?

 

[C.A.P]

Ken good to hear. Ill be over the house for lunch and some Imbibing in a few days .

 

[FISH_MAN]

Despite their saying it isn't intended to replace any particular speaker, it is pretty clear that both the Vista and the Vantage are on their way out. Summit was upgraded to Summit X (with attendant price increase); Spire came in just below it (an obvious replacement for the Vantage); and this speaker probably comes in below that and replaces the Vista.

are you crazy ??? the spire does not replace the vantage they are in totally different leagues and price ranges !
the spire is almost $3k more and part of the reserve product line as the vantage is not.

 

[Rich]

are you crazy ???

Not the last time I checked.

the spire does not replace the vantage they are in totally different leagues and price ranges !
the spire is almost $3k more and part of the reserve product line as the vantage is not.

And just a little more than a year ago, the Summit was selling for $11,000 and there was no such thing as the "reserve" product line. Now the Summit doesn't exist and the Summit X is selling for $14,000 a pair and sits at the top of the hybrids in the "reserve" product line. The next product down from the Summit was the Vantage. The next product down from the Summit X is the Spire. Do you see where I am going with this? It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

As for the Spire and the Vantage being in totally different price ranges . . . well, that was kind of my point. Just as the Summit X is selling for $3,000 more than the Summit when it was discontinued. This is a way for ML to upgrade their product line and at the same time institute a serious hike in prices without getting too much bellyaching from their customer base. Folks will buy into the marketing hype of the "reserve" product line (as apparently you have) and shell out thousands more for a marginally improved speaker (slightly lower crossover, slightly taller panel, slightly larger woofer, and slightly lower bass extension).

Mark my words, the Vantage and Vista will be gone by the end of this year, and in their place will be the Spire and this new speaker, for several grand more. And perhaps one other new speaker to fill in the price gap.

 

[David Matz]

i disagree, its just like buying a car. you see whats in your budget and then chose from those which you like the most. have more faith the average buyer of hifi in this range...or dont maybe they just have the cash, either way i cant see it being bad.

Jimna,

I respectfully disagree with you. I actually have a background in behavioral psychology, so what I am saying is based on research and not pulling opinions out of my butt. It's interesting you bring up a car example. It's a very sad fact that GM has shut down OldsMobile, Pontiac, and Saturn and thousands of jobs were lost. Why? Because the customers could not tell the difference between some Olds and Buicks and Chevys and small Caddies. The same holds for the number of retirement mutual funds offered in employee plans (the larger the number, the smaller the participation) or varieties of jam on a supermarket shelf.

This doesn't apply to experts, of course. I have heard pretty much every Logan speaker in the line up except for the Summit X, so someone with hundreds of posts can make a good product decisions. However, it's always better for a manufacturer or retailer to make it easier for the average customer to make a clean cut decisions. Small, Medium, or Large is the best way to go.

 

[amey01]

Justin is correct Midrange Tweeter panel or for short MRT Not having heard the Spire I cannot comment on the comparison, as I was told it is not intended to replace any current speaker. I am not sure where it fits in the pecking order. It was a very fine speaker.

With so many acronyms that ML are using lately, I never know. Thank you.

 

[JonFo]

I have to agree with Rich that this looks a lot like a line-update.

The only question for me is if it has a 44" panel (same as Spire and Summit), is it going to slot between them (not likely), or below the Spire?

The Spire is already about as simple an ESL hybrid as possible, so not sure how they would decontent it further to lower the price point.

 

[Rich]

The only question for me is if it has a 44" panel (same as Spire and Summit), is it going to slot between them (not likely)

I considered that as well, Jon. But I agree it doesn't seem to make sense to come in with something at the $9,995 (sub 10) price point. That would kind of make the Spire a meaningless product and crowd up the "reserve" line. Something in the $7,000 price range makes more sense. Right now, there is a $1400 difference between the Vista and Vantage, so I expect they will replicate that somewhat with the Spire and this speaker. Which would place this speaker right around $7,000, maybe a little less.

The Spire is already about as simple an ESL hybrid as possible, so not sure how they would decontent it further to lower the price point.

Oh, come on, Jon. This one is so obvious. Take a Spire, throw in an eight inch woofer instead of a ten inch, and take away the internal woofer amp. Voila, you have a cheaper Spire (and a Vista replacement).

 

[FISH_MAN]

Despite their saying it isn't intended to replace any particular speaker, it is pretty clear that both the Vista and the Vantage are on their way out. Summit was upgraded to Summit X (with attendant price increase); Spire came in just below it (an obvious replacement for the Vantage); and this speaker probably comes in below that and replaces the Vista. Then, you have the Purity and Source bringing up the low end of the esl line. They could also potentially put another speaker with an unpowered woofer into the mix between this one and the Purity, as a true Vista replacement, price-wise.

The Vista and the Vantage are the only remaining electrostatic speakers from ML's last generation. Clearly they will be replaced soon and this new speaker seems to be part of that transition. Doing it this way allows them to raise their prices without too much fuss from customers. They introduce new models at higher prices, saying they are not intended to replace current models, then they slowly cease production of the older models and discontinue them a little while later. Kind of like when they assured everyone they would try to make the Summit X such that Summits would be able to be upgraded, but then they just kind of let that slide by the wayside without too much comment.

There is a pretty big gap between the prices of Vantage and Spire, and between Spire and Summit X, compared to the lower end esl's. By introducing a couple of newer models, they could bring these steps closer together in price, while at the same time raising prices across the esl line. Notice how the Source, Purity, Vista and Vantage all step up in price pretty closely. But then, the gaps get bigger as you go up. I would think they are planning on replacing the Vista and Vantage, while also bringing the prices between models closer together at the higher end and with an end result of higher prices across the board.

My guess is this speaker comes in around $7,000 to $7,500 and they put out another around $5,500, and the Vista and Vantage go Bye Bye. And all this happens during the course of this year. Ok, that is my completely off-the-cuff prediction. What do you guys think?

in one line you say the spire will replace the vantage and in another line you state that the new speaker will I am confused on your point here.they replace all of their models eventually don't think to much into it they are just trying to give people new options and make a few bucks while they do it but that's the point of being in business.

 

[Gordon]

I've always thought there was big gap between the Spire and Summit X. Perhaps the new speaker is going to be a Spire X with an increase in cost to close the Spire/Summit X gap. IF that is the case, I'd be as hard pressed as the Summit/Summit X owners were back when all that was going on. It would be difficult I think to make Spire X without stepping on the Summit X ground. Perhaps 2-4 smaller woofers with no internal amp?

Then the next new speaker will replace the Vantage/Vista at the $7k point. So we would then have new at 7K, Spire X at 10-11 and Summit X at 14. Now you have the small, medium and large as mentioned by Dave. This of course excludes the CLX as the flagship.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans out. I'm not interested in any new speakers right now in any case.

Gordon