New ML (low end) owner looking for input

[rteichman]

Hi, let me start by saying that I am NOT an audiophile. About 3 weeks ago I wandered into a high end stereo store (waiting for a friend to complete and errand) and just fooling around I listened to a pair of ML Vistas (I guess). I was blown away and decided I have to own a pair. However not being an audiophile I was not going to spend that much money on speakers. I researched and listened and a week ago I purchased a pair of ML Source (demos).

I knew my current receiver would not be good enough for the speakers, but I decided to "plug them in" anyway figuring that its better than having them in a box while I wait to get a receiver. I was shocked how good it sounded! Ok, now don't go running for the hills, but its connected to one of those all in one home theatre systems (100watts per channel at 10% THD), but it still is a great improvement.

I will be buying a receiver (found a good deal on a used Yamaha mid-level) next week. Its also 100watts per channel but at 0.09% THD so I expect it to sound even better.

My problem is the center channel. I am still using all the rest of the components from the "box system" but the center channel is the most noticeable deficiency. What should I get? I was at Tweeter yesterday and listened to a floor model Cinema i that they had for half price. It was fabulous! BUT its still expensive, and its HUGE. I only have a 32" LCD TV with a small stand and no room for something like that.

Any suggestions for a narrower center channel speaker? I can't really mount it above the TV and I don't have much room below it. Also as I said I am not an audiophile. I should also mention that the only inputs to my receiver is the cable box and my Mac mini which houses my music collection (on itunes) and through which I watch DVDs.

Thanks
Rob

 

[Rich]

Check out the classifieds on this forum; you may find something that works for you. For instance, here is a link to a single ML Vignette for sale at a good price. This would make a fine basic center channel.:

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5282

Otherwise, you could check audiogon for a used Vignette, Fresco, or Matinee. Glad to hear you are enjoying your ML experience.

 

[rmolina]

Just curious, which receiver are you using?

 

[edwinr]

There's no such animal as a low end ML! Maybe less expensive, but not low end...

Regarding using a receiver with Martin Logans, I don't see a problem with that. You gotta start somewhere. Some of the Yamaha, Denon and Marantz products are pretty good. Just out of interest I ran my Summits for a little while with a Cambridge Audio receiver. The sound was quite listenable. Not as good overall as my reference electronics - but surprisingly good.

 

[rteichman]

Just curious, which receiver are you using?

Promise not to laugh! An LG all in one unit: LGDVT418.

 

[rteichman]

There's no such animal as a low end ML! Maybe less expensive, but not low end...

Very true!

 

[Vidgamer]

...a box while I wait to get a receiver. I was shocked how good it sounded! Ok, now don't go running for the hills, but its connected to one of those all in one home theatre systems (100watts per channel at 10% THD), but it still is a great improvement.

OK, yeah, 10% sounds pretty bad, but a good quality receiver works fine. You don't need an audiophile amp, although, IMHO, I would look for something that is rated to handle lower ohms, just in case, but maybe that's me.

I will be buying a receiver (found a good deal on a used Yamaha mid-level) next week. Its also 100watts per channel but at 0.09% THD so I expect it to sound even better.

Yamaha makes good receivers. I'm sure there are a couple of other brands that would be good too. I like the convenience of receivers so I say go for it. :rocker:

My problem is the center channel. I am still using all the rest of the components from the "box system" but the center channel is the most noticeable deficiency. What should I get? I was at Tweeter yesterday and listened to a floor model Cinema i that they had for half price. It was fabulous! BUT its still expensive, and its HUGE. I only have a 32" LCD TV with a small stand and no room for something like that.

Any suggestions for a narrower center channel speaker? I can't really mount it above the TV and I don't have much room below it. Also as I said I am not ....

I have a Cinema, and maybe I should make this into a different thread, but after getting a new LCD TV, that I have sitting on a TV table, my Cinema no longer fits. Are the wall-brackets still available for this? This thing seems very heavy.

I'm tempted to mount the TV on the wall, and leave the Cinema on the table! It would be easier. If I could find something sturdy to set the TV on (a thick plank of wood? ), raising it a few inches, maybe I could have them coexist on the stand/table.

 

[TomD]

We seem to have something in common. I did not consider myself an audiophile but have moved into the ranks of an audiophile-want-to-be.

I was looking for speakers and, before I knew it, purchased the Aeon i at clearance. I really did not expect to own ML's, only wished that I could. At the price offered, it was a no brain-er.

Anyway, one thing lead to another and I needed to bring my center speaker up to standard with the new mains. Low and behold - the cinema i presented itself as an off-the-floor model. I was familiar with this speaker and fantasized about owning it someday. That day came and I bit the bullet and shelled out the bucks.

I also have a Yamaha and now with these new speaker see the need for better amplifiacation, not to mention a better CD and DVD player. I find myself getting deeper and deeper into a place I never purposely intended to venture. I most recently purchased a Monster HTS 3600 to protect my spoiled brats. I am also looking for decent cables. I am currently bi-wiring with two Monster speaker wires (I am sure many of you are cringing at that )

The thing is, I am sooooo glad I took the plunge. I really did not know what I was missing. I always enjoyed music and thought I had a decent system. My Carver amplifier was taken from that decent system, which is now mostly collecting dust, to power the Aeon i's. The sound went from night to day and I never looked back.

I just wanted to share my experience. My suggestion is to obtain the best possible equipment that you can. Build on it and eventually acquire an ass-kicking package. This group is a great inspiration (and knowledgeable). I NEVER seen systems like these; truly inspirational.

As for the Yamaha, I believe it is a good receiver. However, with approx 120 w/4 ohms, my center could use more power, although it sounds good. I just need to adjust the settings by decreasing the mains and rears to get everything even, then the volume can be adjusted accordingly for the components within the 5.1 system.

If you do get the cinema l, remember it is a hungry speaker. It is rated from 2.7 - 6 ohms so you need an amp that can drive the variable loads. So far the Yamaha is doing a noble job, much to my relief, but there is room for improvement.

 

[rteichman]

Well I have the speakers up and running with the Yamaha amp and it sounds GREAT. I can see this is going to cost me a bundle, because I am not satisfied with the center channel. I am planning on buying a Vignette speaker for that, but with the holiday gift buying requirements that is going to have to wait. Of course my other problem is that I no longer have a subwoofer. The LG system had a passive subwoofer that was powered by the all-in-1 receiver.

It seems the Yamaha has the ability to route subwoofer base to the front speakers so I will try that out. I hope it works as I want to get the center channel speaker as soon as possible, but I also really need to address the base issue.

 

[KCWolfPck]

In my opinion, in your situation:

Buying a subwoofer and using a "phantom" center setting would yield you more improvement than buying a center channel speaker and doing without a subwoofer.

 

[TomD]

I do believe we have a new case of Joeyitis on this board

Joeyitis? Should I be worried? Am I on an incurable path of parting with my worth for that sweeeeet sound? Hope so.

 

[Bernard]

Joeyitis? Should I be worried? Am I on an incurable path of parting with my worth for that sweeeeet sound? Hope so.

Be afraid; be VERY afraid. From now on your wallet will be in the depletion region.

There is no known cure for Joeyitis. You HAVE to feed the monster

 

[Craig]

In my opinion, in your situation:

Buying a subwoofer and using a "phantom" center setting would yield you more improvement than buying a center channel speaker and doing without a subwoofer.

KCWolfpck is right. You'd be amazed at how nice a 2.1 system can sound using just two main speakers and sub. When setup optimally your pair of Vistas and Subwoofer are very capable of creating an involving home theatre or 2 channel stereo sound. Now that you've discovered high-end audio you'll hear how just two speakers can create 3D sound from a 2 channel source. The digital processing in your receiver can optimize the 5.1 audio signals for 2 channel playback. However you do need a sub to produce the low freqs that are so important to home theatre audio. The 2 mains are capable of creating a center effect that comes very close to having a center. And 2 quality mains can often do this better than using a wimpy center.

 

[Joey_V]

Be afraid; be VERY afraid. From now on your wallet will be in the depletion region.

There is no known cure for Joeyitis. You HAVE to feed the monster

Yeah.... tell me about it. Sheesh.

I came into this site looking to buy only Mosaics for $1300 at my Tweeter when they were on closeout. That was a little over 2 years ago.

 

[edwinr]

I agree with the comments about using a 'wimpy' center speaker. The phantom mode works just fine with my Summits since buying a quality centre speaker is out of the equation at the moment...

 

[rteichman]

... Now that you've discovered high-end audio ...

Actually I really used to be into it before I got married (many many years ago). As for the phantom center, I guess I could do that, didn't think about it. I figured using the old center speaker would be better than nothing.

As for the subwoofer, a friend of mine is letting me borrow his old one. He was about to sell it and I may end up buying but for now I get to use it free of charge :music:

 

[Vidgamer]

.... As for the phantom center, I guess I could do that, didn't think about it. I figured using the old center speaker would be better than nothing.
....

The advice for using a phantom center is a good one. (It's what I'm doing now!)

When I got my center channel (the Cinema), I was a bit surprised that I didn't get more bang for the buck. It helped with movies, but wasn't quite as impressive of a change as I'd hoped. I don't think it was a big improvement for music, but it does help with the dialog in movies, so I think it is definitely helpful there.

Now that I've moved it out of my system, I'm not entirely happy with my phantom center -- I think speaker placement is my problem now. But I guess my point is, if you go with a phantom center, take the time to fine-tune the placement, and you might be surprised how usable it is, and a center is probably not as necessary as you may have thought, or at least a lower priority.

I just had a crazy thought, with nothing better to do with my Cinema at the moment -- I should take my Cinema and use it as a rear-center channel, with a phantom front center... and no side surrounds? Would that even work? Hmm. I can't exactly use it for a single surround.

 

[rteichman]

Update. Well I got my friends sub-woofer and it sounds great. I also bought a Vignette speaker for the center channel and it really completes the "package". My only problem now is my bank account.... it's been severly depleted by all this :-(

 

[Peter Hogan]

My only problem now is my bank account.... it's been severly depleted by all this :-(

Yup, definately a case of Joeyitis...

Peter