NEW CLS IIZ Panels

[Jeff Zaret]

I have been quiet about this because I am still amazed on how well they sound. I have had new panels in my CLSiiZ's for almost two weeks now and they keep getting better. Jim Power at ML told me it will take about 30 to 40 hours for them to break in and I would say that I am about half way there.

I was reluctant to replace them for a few reasons. First, was the money and although considerably less than a new set of speakers of this caliber, it still put a "dent" in my charge card.

I was having some issues with one panel buzzing and I had tried all the tweeks vacuuming and the hair dryer. I was going to give them a bath but the issue I have is where I live, the desert. The water has a lot of alkaline, calcium and other sediments in it. I would have to find someone with a water softner or buy quite a few bottles of purified water! No luck there. After a few discussions with Jim P. at ML, he concurred that washing them with the "normal" water I have would not help and maybe make it worse.

Upon further diagnosis I had found that one of the "stiffeners" on the outside "bass section" of the panel had actually lost some of the adhesive properties it was supposed to have. Ok, in laymans terms, it was sticking to the panel as it should. This created the "buzz" at certain frequencies. Sometimes the hair dryer will cure this but unfortunately not in my case.

The other determining issue was the other panel started to lose some of the "highs" or crispness that the other on had even with the occassional buzz. I had swapped speaker cables, interconnects, etc but although the sound moved the dullness did not. My CLSiiZ's are 14 years old. They were originally iiA's that were upgraded to iiZ's.
So new panels.
If anyone is thinking of changing their CLS panels let me know. There are a few tricks thatI have which may help. The instructions are ok. I have a discussion with Jim P on revising them at the moment and have made some suggestions.

Jeff

 

[HK-Steve]

That is Good News Jeff,
I myself have just "run in" my New Stators in for my Quest's.

I had pretty much done everything you have tried, and still wasn't happy,
So as you say, New Panles it is.

I am back to really enjoying my system once again.

I am sure you will enjoy your CLSiiZ's even more once they are run in.


Happy listening
Cheers
Steve

 

[zaphod]

I have been quiet about this

wondered where you'd been

If anyone is thinking of changing their CLS panels let me know. There are a few tricks thatI have which may help. The instructions are ok. I have a discussion with Jim P on revising them at the moment and have made some suggestions.
Jeff

could you write up the tricks and the technique? N years down the road when someone asks the details, you may have forgotten them

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Actually I already have written them down in case "old timers" sets in early.
This is the dialogue I have with Jim P. at ML right now to see if "we" can improve the instruction's clarity (no pun intended). I have the instructions from ML that I copied in electronic form and then I have my notes that basically make it easier to understand. I am waiting for Jim to respond and then I will provide them to anyone who wants them. Of course I could just post them in the tweak section too.

Jeff

 

[HK-Steve]

Yes, Do please post them in the tweaks section,

That way they are available, for everyone.



Cheers
Steve

 

[docknow]

Jeff-

I also had buzzing from what you call the "stiffeners" of my CLSz panels. The adhesive piece of ?mylar had partially come loose from the back stator and was touching the panel. I first notice this as a buzz at certain frequencies. I spoke with Jim Powers who told me just to remove this piece, that it is there to dampen the excursion of the panel at high volumes. He said if I had problems after removal, a similar size piece of tape could be applied to the outside of the back stator to the same effect.

I went ahead and did so. A little easier said then done, as it is hard to grab the nearly clear mylar with a set of hemostats and pull it out, but I managed. It is easiest if you can grab one of the corners, but even then it tends to bunch up on the way out. I would pull as much as I could, then cut off what was out with a utility knife, then grab another part with the hemostats and pull out some more. I also used a vacum cleaner when I was pulling it out as a white power (probably dry adhesive) was formed as the piece was compressed. When I was doing this I noticed that 2 of the three pieces had loose spots and so took out another one.

The sound was amazingly better, now much clearer and with more highs than the other speaker (it had been duller before). I then looked at the other speaker and noticed that one or two of it's mylar pieces was starting to come loose and removed them also. Now both panels/speakers were equal and sound great, like I remember them from years ago, but as they slowly lost their highs did not notice. I have had no slapping or over-excursion of my panels playing up to about 95 db levels (using a meter). Jim said I might not, as each panels tension is a little different.

I wanted to post this as a tweak, but have been too busy, but your thread sparked me to write about my experience. My speakers were CLS 1's, then 2's, then 2a's, then Z's, so they have some of the oldest Z panels out there. My advice to all CLS owners is to take a flashlight and a probe and see how tightly adherent these pieces are on their speakers. If they are loose, a very signifigant increase in performance can be had for free by removing them.

-jim

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Jim,
Great post. I did talk with Jim Power at great length about the "stiffeners. My problem was, that even with a flashlight I could not see any of the separation. When I used the blow dryer on them, the "buzzing" would disappear for about a week then come back. This was frustrating. I wish I could have done that but I was too frustrated. Looking back maybe I should have at least tried because I had nothing to loose at that point.

The dullness was strange on my other speaker. I would place my ear near the panel in various areas and in comparison to the other speaker there was a difference throughout the entire panel. It was almost like there was some type of attenuation difference. It was probably not holding a charge as well as the other one. Like I said in my post I moved stuff around to see if I could alleviate the difference but it stayed. I tried various CD's and vinyl but it never changed.

I am thrilled it worked out for you and I wish I had be that fortunate but maybe this was meant to be. Looking back when I bought mine a year ago I remember there was a dead fly stuck in one of the panels between the "grid" and the panel itself. This was the one that developed the buzz. Maybe it is the ghost of that fly who could never get out. LOL

Anyway, all is better for both of us and that is what really matters.....getting back to listening and enjoying.

Jeff

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Yes, Do please post them in the tweaks section,

That way they are available, for everyone.



Cheers
Steve

I did get a response from Jim Power at ML today regarding my updated procedure. He said he took a quick look and that it look great. He has been swamped since his assistant has been out sick. He apologized because when he re-read it he thought it was out of date too.
Jim said he would keep me posted. If nothing happens in a few weeks I will post what I sent in t the Tweak Section. The one thing which is mainly different is there are no side rails to remove to get the panel out, you have to "flex it"

In the mean time if anyone has any questions on replacing the CLS panels let me know.

Jeff

Jeff

 

[DTB300]

Jeff

Jeff

Dual personality now? Do we call you Jeff, or Jeff-Jeff? Couldn't resist..

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Actually I think I studder when I type.

Jeff

 

[DTB300]

Have not made it over to Michael's yet to check on those trees...Not sure what the wife will think about this move... let me see....probably something like this:

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Oh the joys of marriage.........................hmmm let me see do I miss it
Nah

 

[yawg]

Changing panels on the CLS

Hi all,

If anyone is thinking of changing their CLS panels let me know. There are a few tricks thatI have which may help. The instructions are ok. I have a discussion with Jim P on revising them at the moment and have made some suggestions.

As my IIz started buzzing at higher volumes now I'm considering getting new panels but I'll try the hair dryer first. I'm out of work now and on a tight budget.

I just can't imagine to accidentally destroy my panels and then have to wait for the replacements from the U.S. (I'm living in the Netherlands), unable to listen to my beloved speakers

Anyway, I'm very curious about Jeff's hints and tips concerning the (now optional but necessary later on) replacement/mounting of the panels.

For now I'll have to do with less volume (I like to play music on a realistic scale) but the CLS are not very loud to begin with ...

Jörg.

 

[yawg]

Replacement panels in Europe

Hi,

I wanted to get rep. panels for my CLS IIz directly from ML in the U.S. but Jim Powers told me to get them from a European dealer as they have agreements with them.

Today I heard that I would have to pay 2250 euros to have them exchanged. That's 2770 dollars at the present exchange rate! I asked them if I could mount them by myself and save some money but I'm afraid they would still cost me more than double

I guess the ML partners take too big an advantage from those "agreements" which works against the sales of ML products over here, keeping them in the niche for the rich. It's a shame.

I paid 2000 euros for my pristine looking pair of CLS which had been on demo for a couple of years in a hifi studio and then been used at home by the first owner for two years.

After eight years the panels developed a buzz at certain notes in the upper bass at higher listening levels. I'll probably buy a pair of dynamic speakers for loud music and keep the CLS for small scale work.

Or perhaps I might find an ML enthousiast in the U.S. who would "broker" a pair of panels for me ...

I'm still considering the hair dryer method but still have to get more desperate to try that.

On some sunny days it seems as if the kazooing is much less ...

Jörg.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Jörg,

The hair dryer method is not that bad to do. I used a hair dryer that was 1600 watts. I would start on the front. Start on either side of the long panels in front and go from the top to the bottom. The distance of the hair dryer to the panel should be about 12 inches/30 centimeters to start. You should take about 10 to 15 seconds to go from the top to the bottom.

Then I would do the same on the rear. The center part usually is ok and the buzz occurs on the sides and is sometimes caused by the stiffeners loosening.

Good Luck

Jeff

 

[Rik_Rankin]

Oh the joys of marriage.........................hmmm let me see do I miss it
Nah

I DON'T think so!

 

[robertawillisjr]

Jeff,

Which style panels did they send you?

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I believe they are the new style. They do not look like the oriiginal CLS. Mine are CLSiiZ's. It is my understanding from Jim Power than when the stock gets low they build new ones. He told me they always keep a few on hand. This would make me think they are the new style.

I hope this answers your question. If not, let me know.

Jeff

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I DON'T think so!

Rik,

I made this statement with a bit of levity, concern and confidence. I was married for almost 24 years so I earned the badge and the T-Shirt!

Jeff

 

[robertawillisjr]

I believe they are the new style. They do not look like the oriiginal CLS. Mine are CLSiiZ's. It is my understanding from Jim Power than when the stock gets low they build new ones. He told me they always keep a few on hand. This would make me think they are the new style.

I hope this answers your question. If not, let me know.

Jeff

Thanks. I have the opportunity to get a pair IIz's which need some work.