New CLS IIa owner - Martin Logan Super System

[ReisTech]

Hi everyone,

Genuinely looking forward to engaging with this community...

Been a long-term music lover and audiofile, and have had the pleasure of owning some wonderful equipment/systems. In no particular order... Genesis 300, Apogee Scintilla, Caliper and Stage, Martin Logan Monolith III, and SL3, All-Active Paradigm 5.1 home theatre, Wadia 860x and 830, Krell FPB 300c and KSA-200S, Aragon Palladiums, Audio Research Classic 60 (the balanced version, can't remember model) Theta and Benchmark DACs, etc, etc... You get a picture of the addiction.

I have Finally purchased a pair of full-range electrostats; CLS IIa, with newer panels... Can't believe its taken me so long as I have been in love with them since my Apogee days; for some reason the right pair never came along at the right time.

Side Story/Preamble - I actually started to collect the pieces to make my own Martin Logan Super System (which I never finished). It was going to be based around a TacT Audio RCS 2.2x Room Correction Preamp, Tact's own (unobtanium) corner loaded Subs (all of which I still own). The intent was going to be to combine 2 CLS IIa panels vertically stacked (in a custom-made single frame) to create a floor to ceiling line source (which could energize 2x more air and take advantage of the db benefits of a line source at the listening position), run it full range through to low bass, actively cross-over/bi-amp to the corner-loaded subs for the lowest octaves, and time-align/frequency optimize to the room through the 2.2x. But I digress a bit...

Unfortunately, my new space and new economic constraints have led to me moving into a condo, and selling off almost all my gear. One last detail, I live just outside Toronto in Canada. Besides sharing these details about me for entertainment, this background information leads me to two separate questions for our group.

1. Amp - Given my current economic constraints, I need a Very stable, but affordable amp to drive my new CLS IIas. I fully understand the high frequency load constraints that need to be overcome to get proper dynamic and balanced frequency range output from the panels. Unfortunately, I need a champagne amp on a beer budget. I recently missed an older Coda 20 for $1k. I am aware of the Sanders amps, they seem ideal but still unfortunately a bit out of my budget at the moment. Does anyone have for sale, or can recommend a quality amp to drive my IIas properly, ideally at a cap of $1,500 U.S.??? I hope to not end up here, but it will have to do for a few years...

2. Fantasy Martin Logan Super-System - I am curious to discover if any members have ever considered and/or succeeded at creating a Martin-Logan Super System somewhat like the one I described above. Would love to hear your thoughts/follow your journey. I have always felt that it is marvelous that Martin Logan continues to make replacement panels for all their systems (the CLS specifically, in this case), which creates a very unique and interesting opportunity to DIY a large electrostatic array as the foundation of a no-limits system (at a small fraction of the cost of trying to buy a comparable system)... Or am I the only nut case in this group? If this captures your imagination, I'd love to engage.

Thanks for your time, looking forward to participating in our community...

Antonio Reis (Tony).

 

[Robert D]

I bought a new Aragon amp about 8 years ago or more. Its a dual monoblock, so I use it to power a pair of Prodigy speakers. Its great. I know there are others on here that use older ones to power their electrostats. There seem to be used amps out there. They also make monoblocks too, so youd have one amp for each speaker. Those have 2x the power that mine has since its only one channel. Mine is 200 watt/channel at 8 ohm and 400 W at 4 ohm. You of course want to look for a doubling of power when you decrease resistance by half. The used amps sell for a good price. Mine is 8 or more years older now and good as new. They have a good reputation for longevity I think. They are made here in the US, in the state of Indiana. Indy labs. New ones now are priced ridiculously high, like most things because of inflation. Buy one used. I own the Titanium.

https://www.aragonav.com/

 

[ReisTech]

I bought a new Aragon amp about 8 years ago or more. Its a dual monoblock, so I use it to power a pair of Prodigy speakers. Its great. I know there are others on here that use older ones to power their electrostats. There seem to be used amps out there. They also make monoblocks too, so youd have one amp for each speaker. Those have 2x the power that mine has since its only on channel. Mine is 200 watt/channel at 8 ohm and 400 W at 4 ohm. You of course want to look for a doubling of power when you decrease resistance by half. The used amps sell for a good price. Mine is 8 or more years older now and good as new. They have a good reputation for longevity I think. They are made here in the US, in the state of Indiana. Indy labs. New ones now are priced ridiculously high, like most things because of inflation. Buy one used. I own the Titanium.

https://www.aragonav.com/

Thanks for the recommendation, I will dig into the newer models and see what pricing is like. I previously owned a pair of Aragon Palladium monoblocks, and they were wonderful amps driving hard loads (actually ran Scintillas for a while as I was recapping my Krell at the time). Great suggestion, thank you again!

 

[john65b]

Wow. Interesting hobby. I also have experimental plans on CLS... Great minds think alike, no?

I have a three pairs of various CLS models - one pair CLS II bare stators (mylar removed - experimental), one pair of CLS IIa panels (mylar replaced by me, but needs to be redone) and one pair of CLS IIz panels (all stock - intact, but low-ish output - thanks Jeff!). My plan was to sell off my other speakers to concentrate on my CLS system, someday. I even had some beautiful CLS frames made out of Cherry and another in Oak. I no longer have original ML CLS interfaces, but have interfaces from Acoustat (MK121A and MK141) and Soundlab A2, as well as some home made step-up transformer interfaces. Also have a Shackman V-Typ-WR EL84 / 12AX7 based tube interface to direct drive the CLS panels from 250hz up to 20khz. Just need to be wired up to tranny and put in a case.

I actually have a Sanders Kaya Bass Crossover Amp (that is easily converted to a full range amp with volume control - I confirmed with Roger Sanders that the simple mod is correct - very very nice guy). I was selling the amp here, but decided to keep for my difficult speaker experiments - CLS, Apogees, and Acoustats - once I could get to them. I posted them here for sale a while back. KAYA Amp

And speaking of Tact Audio, I have a pair of S2150 amps, and an RCS2.0S and RCS2.0 preamps (the RCS2.0 and one S2150 I have is for sale). I do not believe the S2150 amps can handle the CLS load, but easily handled the Quad ESL-63 I had (much easier amp load), The RCS2.0S has been my main preamp for years, due to its ability to complete room correction. Excellent pre.

Another amp you could use for your CLS (or other Electrostatic speaker) is a simple ICEPower 1000ASP based amp - these are amp modules from Parts-Express ($400 each?) bolted into a chassis. These amps are true workhorses and output over 1k watts each @ 4 ohm. The only speakers I ran that drove the 1000ASP into protection were Acoustat 2+2 during heavy testing. They worked great on my CLS speakers too. Only issue is they are low input impedance (8k ohm) so you need a preamp with low output impedance (SS preamp should be no problem, but most tube preamps have too high output impedance that will affect the high frequency range). Krell KSA based amps work a treat too.

Just have to get a few thing out of the way so I can concentrate back on my CLS.....

 

[Tmort]

Check out the Anthem MCA 225 mk 2 amp, a used one is in your price range and are a solid amp that play well with stats. I used one for mine for a couple years before getting the Sanders Magtech.

 

[Russr]

For my SL3's, Aerius i's, Theater & Stage, I found various flavors of the Bryston 4B-ST/SSTs and 7B-ST/SST. up to the task. I'm assuming they'd do well with the full-range panels, but maybe someone with personal experience can talk more to that. There is a strong 2nd hand market for the Bryston amps. They have a 20Yr warranty, which kinda says a lot.